Alister Lydon (Allie) SCOON

Interviewer: Morag Forrester

Interview Date: 15 December 2008

Tape 1 Side A

008: States he is ALISTER SCOON, born 16 NOVEMBER 1931 in AUCKLAND, adding that his family had been living in NAPIER but was evacuated following a major earthquake that hit the HAWKES BAY town on 6 FEBRUARY 1931.

021: Goes on to explain that the authorities had ordered the evacuation of everyone living in NAPIER "women and children first... so my mother took my…BROTHER and SISTER who were six (sister) and one year old (brother)...had to be evacuated by boat to AUCKLAND and consequently I was born in AUCKLAND"

032: Says his FATHER (JOSEPH SCOON) stayed on in NAPIER to help reconstruct the town and was therefore one of the contributors to its strong ART DECO-style BUILDINGS.

038: Describes his FATHER as an itinerant MASTER BUILDER whose role today would be seen as project manager for several significant landmarks, particularly bridges.

041: "Consequently our family was constantly shifting all the time and my sister who is six years older than me, her recollection was always standing on a railway station somewhere, particularly in WELLINGTON, waiting for boats to go across the STRAIT."

054: Replies that little is known of his FATHER'S background other than that he was born in NEW ZEALAND as one of a family of "ten or eleven" but left home at the age of twelve. As a widower, he adds, his FATHER married his MOTHER who was fifteen years younger.

069: States his MOTHER, MADELINE (née LYDON), was born in IRELAND - her family came from ORINMORE, GALWAY.

085: Having mentioned he has SIBLINGS, he names then as CEDRIC who was eighteen months older than him and two SISTERS the elder is named YVONNE (living in GORE) and the younger is ADRIENNE (who lives in NAPIER).

101: AUCKLAND was the family's hometown, he says, until a move to DUNEDIN in 1939 "just in time to arrive here at the same time as the biggest snowstorm Dunedin’s ever had". His first school was SACRED HEART in AUCKLAND.

108: Recalls that the snow was about 'two foot thick on MCBRIDE STREET" where they lived and it lay there for about a week. He adds that the schools and other institutions were closed as a result. "In those days...trams were a source of public transport around the place with no buses or anything…obviously all the tracks got covered up and they couldn't move anywhere."

118: The schools he attended in DUNEDIN, he says, were ST. PATRICK'S (primary) followed by the CHRISTIAN BROTHERS until he was sixteen years old. "School and I didn't get on together, I was there for my sport... but I managed to get through alright.'

131: Recalls he was effectively dismissed by his teachers who considered him too disruptive to make any real achievement. In later years, as CONTRACTS MANAGER for FLETCHER CONSTRUCTION and responsible for supervising up to fifty apprentices, he returned to his old school to address students on career-related matters and remembers telling them that "anybody can make it if I did".

144: Considers it was probably inevitable that he would become a BUILDER since it was in the family genes with both his FATHER and half-BROTHER, BASIL, in the same industry. "I was always going to be in the BUILDING game.'

150: Referring to the BRIDGES his FATHER helped to BUILD, he lists a couple of the better known ones that still exist in 2008 including the RANGITATA BRIDGE (on SHI north of TEMUKA in CANTERBURY) and the BALCLUTHA BRIDGE with its ART DECO style arches and the similar MATAURA BRIDGE

159: Built in the 1930s, he says the comparative lack of mechanical gear in those days make their CONSTRUCTION even more remarkable. "They used diving bells on the BALCLUTHA BRIDGE to go down into all the pile-casing work in the (CLUTHA) river...a very dangerous river."

167: BALCLUTHA, he adds, was often subjected to severe flooding before the BRIDGE was built. "But they had a lot of problems doing it, BUILDING it."

174: Explains his FATHER worked for MCLELLAN CONSTRUCTION LTD, a large OTAGO/SOUTHLAND firm run by two brothers one of whom was BILL MCLELLAN.

180: Mentions the house in MCBRIDE STREET the family rented was a MCLELLAN BUILDING, adding that it is still there. The MCLELLAN offices were in the same street and he recalls SUNDAY mornings when BILL MCLELLAN sat with his FATHER in the front room of their house "talking work and pouring over plans".

187: Of his FATHER, he says "BUILDING was his life" and adds that during the war years (1939-1945) he had been responsible for the reinforcement work for oil tanks and for the CONSTRUCTION of defence battery sites along the SOUTH ISLAND coastline.

197: Replies that along with the itinerant nature of his FATHER'S work, the age difference between his PARENTS led to them becoming estranged so he saw little of his FATHER during his formative years.

205: But not long after starting his apprenticeship with MCLELLANS, he says he ended up working under his FATHER'S supervision in GORE where projects included BUILDING the new NURSES HOME at the SEDDON MEMORIAL HOSPITAL.

215: Recalls that while in GORE he lived with about eighty other workers at a CONSTRUCTION CAMP in ARDWICK STREET. "So that was my first introduction to BUILDING life or working life."

223: Working at MCLELLAN'S, he says, was a foregone conclusion because of his FATHER'S influence with BILL MCLELLAN.

229: The apprenticeship, he replies, lasted five years and he remembers his first wage was £2-2s/6d for a 49 hr week. At the end of it, he says, there were three rates of pay - £6-7½d, £6-10½ and £6-1 1/2d "and you BUILT yourself up to get those different rates".

244: Comments that MCLELLAN paid him the top rate in 1952 after he'd completed his apprenticeship.

253: Replies that along with the practical aspects involved, the apprenticeship also legally required theoretical studies to be included, usually through a technical training school. "But I didn't go (to technical school)."

263: Mentions that some years later while working for FLETCHER CONSTRUCTION as CONTRACT MANAGER he arranged for other capable BUILDERS who'd missed out on receiving their trade certificates.

268: At that stage, it became apparent that he, too, did not have a certificate so he was awarded an honorary one instead "and I gave it back to them. I've always been of the belief that a bit of paper doesn't make you any better at doing something…although I never used to tell apprentices that… I used to prove what I could do by results I got on different things."

277 Goes on to say that at that stage an apprenticeship was a legally-binding contract and it was expected that the holder would comply with the rules laid down "and if you didn't play ball they could actually put the police on you".

282: For example, he says that about halfway through his apprenticeship with MCLELLAN'S he decided to abandon it and go into partnership with another person. They worked in the backblocks of SOUTHLAND mainly doing FARM BUILDING work when the police turned up with a summons and he was forced to go back to DUNEDN.

292: There was another interruption when he was drafted into COMPULSORY MILITARY TRAINING (CMT) at BURNHAM CAMP. Says that while it was a good training ground, by then he had already gained plenty of experience of living in work camps and doing labouring jobs.

305: Admits he went AWOL a few times to keep up his sports activities in DUNEDIN but having been caught out he was occasionally confined to barracks as punishment. "I was actually always pretty rebellious about things, you know."

321: As part of the first intake of CMT trainees, he says their 20-week stint at BURNHAM lasted longer than later intakes and in other ways too, it was something of a learning experience for all concerned, including the authorities.

332: "But...it did make men out of boys. No question about that...it's something that should be still done today, no doubt about it."

335: Despite his occasional bouts of rebellion, he says that towards the end of his stint he was asked to consider joining the permanent army. Tempted at first, he decided to turn down the offer and returned to his apprenticeship with MCLELLAN'S.

350: MCLELLAN'S had a contract with the BANK OF NEW ZEALAND (BNZ), so that when the ROXBURGH HYDRO (DAM) was being BUILT, he spent a year in that area (1950) working on the RE-CONSTRUCTION of the BANK'S premises.

353: He also worked on building the NZ PAPER WLLS factory at MATAURA to which he later returned as a SUPERVISOR when it became part of the FLETCHER CONSORTIUM. Says MCLELLAN'S also BUILT the major part of the FREEZING WORKS in MATAURA.

358: Replies that he continued with MCLELLAN'S for up to six months after completing his apprenticeship. He also recalls more activities while in the MATAURA/EDENDALE area when MCLELLAN'S was contracted to BUILD the "sugar-of-milk" factory.

398: Explains that while living in the CONSTRUCTION CAMPS there was a social side to life as well as the work. In the pre-TV era, there were plenty of social balls to attend as well as the more run-of-the-mill evenings when people played card games such as 500 and EUCHRE.

404: The latter were usually held at a FARMHOUSE with tables arranged to seat about twenty people. Scones and pikelets were baked by the woman of the house, he adds. "They were the social events...darned good."

409: Affirms that it was also a social networking system for young men and women to meet up as potential suitors. But actual courting, he says, was through attending the balls.

416: Replies that he first met his WIFE, MAUREEN (née B0TTING) when she was sixteen (he was twenty) at the NURSES ball (she having begun NURSE training at GORE HOSPITAL).

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014: During the 1950s, he says, courting was much more structured than in 2008 in that after a couple met, they dated a few times, then partners were introduced to respective parents. Engagements lasted at least two years before a couple actually wed.

019: Says his WIFE'S father (GORDON BOTTING) was a BUTCHER by trade, living in GORE. Her mother had died when she was about eleven and so her father brought up six children on his own.

049: After an anecdote about the reaction one suitor had from MR BOTTING when he asked for the hand of an older daughter, he replies that he and MAUREEN married in 1955 by which time he was working for FLETCHER CONSTRUCTION LTD.

071: His first job with FLETCHER, he says, was at the age of twenty-one BUILDING the TASMAN PULP & PAPER MILL at KAWERAU in the NORTH ISLAND which fell under a three-part conglomerate of FLETCHER, MERRIT and RAYMON (FMR).

080: Yet again, he lived in a CONSTRUCTION CAMP located on site. He adds that there were a few people who were unable to cope with those living conditions especially as the work attracted unskilled labourers, some of whom were "misfits".

092: Goes on to say that less than ten years after the end of WWII in a NEW ZEALAND whose population numbered about one and a half million, suddenly "everything was happening" with a neglected infrastructure having to be shored up and BUILT upon.

101: With a large job such as the TASMAN MILL, he estimates that only thirty percent of the workforce was made up of NEW ZEALANDERS. The rest included DUTCH, IRISH, ENGLISH, SCOTS, CZECKOSLOVAKIANS, CROATIANS, and AUSTRALIANS "it was a real UNITED NATIONS and there were some hard cases".

119: Says the workers lived in HUTS (measuring 12ft x 8ft) at the CAMPS with two people assigned to each one. There were washroom facilities, a laundry and big cookhouses.

Comment: From this point to #207, access restrictions apply (see Agreement Form)

152: As an aside, during reference to the MINISTRY OF PUBLIC WORKS CONSTRUCTION CAMP at the LOWER HOLLYFORD on the MILFORD ROAD, he mentions his WIFE'S UNCLE, JIM BOTTING. He later added that JIM BOTTING lived in MATAURA where he and others brewed 'HOKONUI WHISKY' (at a time when prohibition was imposed across SOUTHLAND thereby making the brewing or distilling of liquor illegal), A butcher by trade, JIM BOTTWG was meat-supplier for the MOW CAMP at the HOMER TUNNEL. Concealed among the meatproducts would be some HOKONUI WHISKY.

162: Replies that the WHISKY was brewed around the creeks into the MATAURA (RIVER) in order to avoid the strong aroma from the distilling liquid being traced back to the makers. "They constantly shifted it...at one stage...they had it on a boat pushing it to different places...the cops used to be after them all the time.'

184: Having mentioned that BOTTNG did a three-month term in prison, he adds that upon his release and return to GORE (with a fellow accomplice named PAT KIRK) there was a welcome home party with big banners strung across the MATAURA BRIDGE (which the participant 's FATHER helped BUILD).

190: Comments that BOTTING was no criminal and that although they made money from supplying the whisky they were also "supplying a need" at a time when most of SOUTHLAND was "dry".

207: With reference to his first job in TE ANAU, he says it was 1966. But he mentions that before then, after returning from the NORTH ISLAND and having wed, MCLELLAN'S had contacted him about doing the reinforcement (foundation BUILDING) for the planned new POST OFFICE in GORE.

215: Explains that although similar work today is now done by sub-contractors, for him it had been an important part of his apprenticeship and that he had been schooled by an expert in reinforcement work.

227: The POST OFFICE job was delayed, however, so he was hired by FLETCHER as a CARPENTER on the finishing work of the GORE BRIDGE. When that was finished, he adds, the next job was BUILDNG the GORE WATER TOWER and a number of schools across SOUTHLAND DISTRICT, including the NORTHERN SOUTHLAND COLLEGE at WINTON.

243: Living in GORE (with MAUREEN and a young family) at that time in a house he'd BUILT in FRANK STREET, he was promoted to SENIOR FOREMAN at FLETCHER'S.

250: Recalls he was still in GORE at the time an outbreak of fire destroyed the TE ANAU HOTEL (OCTOBER 1965). "I drove up there on the weekend...and saw what the damage was..." He immediately contacted a THC (the government-run TOURISM HOTEL CORPORATION which operated that HOTEL and the one at MILFORD SOUND) official to offer the services of a team of workers to help re-BUILD the premises.

267: However, the THC decided to wait until the following year to begin the task of BUILDING a new HOTEL. He recalls that it posed a major hiatus in the link of HOTELS run by the THC then, especially as MILFORD TRACK walkers used the TE ANAU HOTEL as part of the stopover package.

275: Says the THC officials negotiated with FLETCHER'S and the new BUILDING was to be a replica of the new WAITANGI HOTEL, except in mirror-image (because of the site layout). "I got the job of BUILDING it."

281: The ARCHITECT, he says, was GIBB PINFOLD and the CLERK OF WORKS was HAROLD ASPEN.

283-290: Gap in recording

293: Trying to BUILD to a mirror-image had its problems along with some parts of the plan that seemed indecipherable. So he suggested that someone visit the WAITANGI HOTEL and take some photographs to work from.

304 : Turns out that he was voted the best person for the job so he visited WAITANGI over a weekend and "used up heaps of film, taking a photo of what they had".

317: Explains that TE ANAU had to be a "mirror-image" because otherwise the front would have looked out on other buildings instead of across the lake.

333: As for the overall cost of the project, he says it was reportedly £350,000 although he can't recall knowing this during the BUILDING process. The project, he adds, had to be completed by 19th NOVEMBER 1966, a total of nine months from start to finish.

341: Mentions a few problems concerning the CLERK OF WORKS who appeared to adopt an adversarial approach to the participant when he first arrived on site.

349: Also mentions that most of the burnt-out remains had been taken away as well as the annexe which was taken to the new motel site near the lake at TE ANAU DOWNS by its leaseholder (ARTHUR PARKER).

351: "He was a pioneer, that guy, and he BUILT that TE ANAU DOWNS (MOTEL) out of scraps...he bought a lot of the stuff... water tanks and a lot of the infrastructure.. .that hadn't been touched by fire."

359: Says the THC took the opportunity of BUILDING a bigger, better, modern HOTEL on the site of the old TE ANAU HOTEL. Consequently, they had to start from scratch and implement new infrastructure such as the installation of fire sprinklers. "There were pipes and trenches running everywhere and they would change on a daily basis.'

365: Concrete, he says, had to be mixed by hand since there were no concrete-making machines in those days.

371: The number of workers on site at any one time, he says, peaked at about 130. At the time, he says, it was the largest "concrete-block" job in NEW ZEALAND. All the blocks were sent from CHRISTCHURCH to MOSSBURN (RAILWAY STATION).

381: Recalls that because of the concurrent, much bigger HYDRO DAM CONSTRUCTION PROJECT at MANAPOURI, there was usually a log jam at MOSSBURN. "The WEST ARM PROJECT had priority."

384: It meant, he says, that the RAILWAY CRANE DRIVERS had to be offered a "backhander to get anything off the trucks at all". He adds that FLETCHER'S had two trucks that went back and forth between TE ANAU and MOSSBURN and usually the bribe was cartons of beer.

390: Says if they didn't "play ball" then not only would they run the risk of not having their goods shifted in a timely manner, but often their property was found to be damaged or it was sent to the wrong destination thus causing unnecessary delays. "One lot they sent to QUEENSTOWN."

411: Affirms that the BUILDING process for the HOTEL began with reinforcing work and the installation of services (water/power). The two-storey main BUILDING was the next stage, followed by the reception area and then the kitchen and storage areas.

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009: The CONCRETE BLOCKS, he says, were deliberately designed to be put in place without the necessity for any extra plasterwork on top of them. It was a skilled job, he says, because ifthe BLOCKS were "grinning at you" on looking at the BUILDING it meant they were not laid properly.

018: They were also white BLOCKS where normally they're grey-cement in colour. "That was the first time that they started using white cement...it's gotta be pure white, no blemishes.'

027: In the 1960s, to ensure the BLOCKS were all the same pure white colour, he says, it meant the amount of cement put into the mix had to be exactly consistent every time "otherwise it would be off-white". As a result, a lot of BLOCKS were rejected.

032: A further aspect was that some of the BLOCKS had a pattern embossed on them and they all had to be properly lined up. "It's architectural BLOCK WORK as against BUILDING a cowshed or something like that."

050: Since there was not a big call for BLOCK LAYERS at that time, he says, any that did exist were also LABOURERS or CARPENTERS. In a place like TE ANAU, he adds, it was difficult to attract skilled BLOCK LAYERS so there was greater reliance on the supervision of the job. "If they (the BLOCKS) weren't up to scratch they were pulled down again."

069: The average wage, he replies, was about 9s/6d per hour in 1966. Most of the "BLOCKIES" he says were sub-contracted by a firm called VIBRAPACK.

077: Explains that as PROJECT MANAGER he was responsible for each stage of the CONSTRUCTION process and knows the difference between good and bad work. "And when you see walls that are done part-way up and they're not up to standard, they've gotta pull 'em down."

083: As a result, he says, he had a battle with some of the "BLOCKIES" because they were employees of VIBRAPACK not FLETCHER'S. Eventually he brought in a VIBRAPACK supervisor, JACK AVERY, who agreed with the participant if the work wasn't up to scratch.

100: Estimates there were probably about 40 sub-contractor firms involved in the project overall. Some firms he was keen to retain for other projects, such as a firm called RHODES and WATTS which started at about that time and remained in business for years.

128: Finding accommodation for more than a hundred workers in TE ANAU in the mid-1960s was a difficult task. However, FLETCFER'S rented about twenty-six houses/cribs including one on MATAI STREET for him and his family, which by then amounted to three CHILDREN. In descending order they are NADINE, DEBRA, KAREN, ALAN and ADÈLE.

163. The older three, he says, easily remember that year they lived in TE ANAU — the eldest being about nine years old. They went to school in the township, he adds.

173: Most of the workers, he recalls, were under forty years old with young families. So he persuaded FLETCHER'S to buy an old bus from the DUNEDIN CITY COUNCIL "an old dunger" to take the workers' children to and from school.

189: Says the bus was painted yellow and had the FLETCHER'S name painted all over it. "I drove it a few times and had to laugh trying to drive the darn thing 'cause at one part of it there your foot actually went through the floor. You'd never get a warrant for it or anything like that today."

193: Soon enough, he says, they were also carrying the local children as well as those of the FLETCHER workforce. And there were SUNDAY picnics — it being the only day off— along the WHITESTONE RIVER or somewhere along the MILFORD ROAD.

197: "Once you get kids mixing up with the locals, you're all one big family anyway." Says the adults, too, used to have some "horrendous" parties on a SATURDAY night.

222: Referring back to the contracting work, he says they used a few of the local firms. He mentions STEVE MCGUIRE and (TERRY) GILLIGAN.

240: Mentions that FLETCHER'S was involved in projects around TE ANAU for about ten years.

244: Back to the HOTEL work, he replies that the job was finished on schedule thereby securing a £2000 bonus which was shared among the staff. However, to ensure that it was doled out according to input, everyone had to complete their five 10-hour days a week. Names were listed on a board, including his own, so that anyone who'd taken unscheduled days off was marked. "No computers or anything like that in those days."

269: Says there were a few who grizzled about it but at least it meant that those who didn't turn up one day at work then for that particular week they didn't get that part of the bonus.

276: Considers that a good working schedule probably helped contribute to their completing the job on time. But he has always insisted on ensuring that the working day had it’s regular smoko and meal breaks. "If you fall down on discipline the whole thing falls to pieces."

282 The best part of the job, he laughs, was the official opening of the HOTEL. Particularly, he continues, after a visit by a THC official who'd visited shortly before completion and commented that it would never be ready on time.

290: But finding an ally in the THC CHIEF EXECUTIVE, ERIC COLBEC, he recalls how together they assembled the HOTEL furniture, including the beds, only days before the opening.

300: Adds that COLBEC brought in about fifty extra staff from other THC-HOTELS around the country to help with the finishing touches both inside and out to ensure it looked ready for guests.

308: The most challenging part of the job, he replies, was getting the materials into TE ANAU.

314: The workers that most readily come to mind, he admits, were those that didn't last particularly those that got into fights, whom he had to dismiss.

324: Recalls that the six-o'clock closing rule for public bars didn't help, especially on a SATURDAY when workers went for a beer after finishing at five o'clock. Mixing with other workers such as those at MANAPOURI or from the MINISTRY of WORKS was sometimes volatile. "A lot of stuff started off as good fun and then by six o'clock it'd break out in a riot outside.”

332: Later on, he mentions that when JERRY HANRAETS was the MANAGER of the THC in TE ANAU, he was effectively the most senior government official in the town. But after the POST OFFICE was built, the title was passed over to the POSTMASTER nicknamed "STAMPY". He later added the names of leading FLETCHER CONSTRUCTION foremen employed on many projects in the BASIN. They were: DUNCAN MACPHERSON - TE ANAU HIGH SCHOOL; NEIL FAIRWEATHER - POST OFFICE/TELEPHONE EXCHANGE,BRUCE CHALLIS – MANAPOURI MOTOR INN, MAX TAYLOR - TAKARO LODGE; PAT MEEHAN - THC MILFORD STAFF QUARTERS; JOCK BARNES - THC MILFORD HOTEL EXTENSIONS.

340: Says the POSTMASTER also acted as celebrant at weddings in TE ANAU.

345: Gives an anecdotal account of how weddings were officiated by the POSTMASTER from the back room of the POST OFFICE which was situated near the pub.

355: Tape stopped and re-started.

363: The POST OFFICE building, he says, was outstanding with the stones on the façade of the long, one-storey building brought from WEST ARM. It took less than twelve months to build, he adds, and it was done (in 1970) at the same time as TAKARO LODGE, a new tourism enterprise in the hinterland of the TE ANAU BASIN. He later mentioned that the POST OFFICE building still stands but no longer houses postal/telephone exchange services. Rather it is home to a variety of small businesses.

380: Having said the POST OFFICE was built with a new "earthquake" policy for its reinforcing, he adds it was warranted in TE ANAU since the area is subjected to about 300 quakes/tremors annually - though only a few may be strong enough to be felt.

387: Referring to TAKARO LODGE, he admits that the concept of BUILDING an exclusive, luxury hunting lodge/retreat in an environmentally sympathetic style was the first of its kind in NEW ZEALAND

389: Replies that the owner (an AMERICAN citizen named STOCKTON RUSH) chose the site, deep in the UPUKERORA VALLEY, because of its remoteness and beauty as well as a place where people could enjoy a restful retreat "incognito". Many of the LODGE customers were VIP's and dignitaries from overseas, he adds.

398: Mentions that RUSH had an "abhorrence of guns" and any that were brought onto the site were instantly confiscated. Deer shooting parties, he says, were flown to another part of the BASIN or into the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK; they were not allowed to hunt on the TAKARO grounds.

412: Before the access road to the LODGE was BUILT, he says, the only way in was by boat (on the UPUKERORA RIVER from LAKE TE ANAU) or helicopter. The first time he visited the site, he recalls, was before the road was formed so he and a site surveyor got access through neighbouring farms "we were going across ploughed furrows".

417: Comments that the so-called road was really only ever a track despite assurances from RUSH that he would BUILD a proper road. "He didn't want to spoil anything.'

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007: Continues explaining that the road was supposed to have been made into a good workable road for heavy truckloads to be brought onto the site. But that never happened.

016: Around the actual BUILDINGS, he adds, RUSH did not want any CONCRETE paths to be formed and the separate COTTAGES/STAFF QUARTERS were abutted against an earth bank. Despite the participant warning RUSH of the risk of erosion due to weather conditions, he says the owner still insisted on not using CONCRETE supports or retaining walls.

030: After a first spell of wintry conditions with snow, ice and rain the earth banking collapsed and water rushed into the newly BUILT units. It all happened in the last couple of months of BUILDING work, he says, so huge teams of workers had to be brought in to dig out the slipped earth and put in retaining walls "that should've been there in the first place"

055: Replies that the architect for TAKARO LODGE was HUMPHREY HALL of MACKENZIE & HALL. Considers that the design may have been re-interpreted from BUILDINGS that STOCKTON RUSH may have seen overseas.

066: "That type of thing with the sod roof and that has been done over in... NORWAY... but it'd never been done in NEW ZEALAND, I don't think anyway."

076: The BUILDING work began, he says, on 17 JANUARY 1970 with a timeline of seven months for completion by FLETCHER CONSTRUCTION who appointed the participant as CONTRACTS MANAGER. The FOREMAN, he adds, was MAX TAYLOR.

084: Although he and his family had returned to live in DUNEDIN, he "went in there every week supervising it, or sometimes twice a week."

093: One of the first things FLETCHER'S needed on site was a CONSTRUCTION CAMP which, despite the ill-formed road, he managed to organise relatively quickly. He adds I there were up to sixteen two-man HUTS as well as a number of caravans.

111: To form the access route, he says machinery had been used to knock down beech trees and then gravel was heaped on top of the flattened area which was not properly dug out and ditched.

126: Recalls that a HEALTH & SAFETY INSPECTOR (RALPH HUGHES) who arrived on site "turned his car over...going in" but rather than have the place shut down, the PARTICIPANT suggested he was a "bad driver".

147: Mentions photographic evidence of one of the many trucks that slipped over the banking as their drivers attempted to navigate the gravel track with heavy loads on board.

156: Replies that despite the number of flip-overs among vehicles using the road, there were no casualties. He suggests that one reason was due to the type of workers that are attracted to a job like that. "They're the type of people that like that sort of thing…otherwise they don't go in there. Because if you're not that sort of guy, you couldn't stay twenty-four hours."

161: Even more so, he says, for those who worked on the MILFORD HOTEL renovations some years earlier "when people couldn't get out of there for six months". Some, he recalls, went "stir crazy and a couple of them, I had to go in there and physically take them out". He cites a specific example.

190: Says the same thing happened with a few of the HOTEL staff who worked a season at MILFORD SOUND. Although he thinks it may be different in 2008, he says it should still be made clear to potential staff the difficulties they may face living in a remote environment.

207: Back to TAKARO, he says that after installing the CONSTRUCTION CAMP, the first task in BUILDING the LODGE was to excavate the site and prepare the foundations, although there was no requirement to install earthquake proofing.

211: Mentions that they weren't allowed to spread out as they pleased across the entire site. There were CONSTRUCTION pathways they had to stick to "the idea was to. . . be as unobtrusive as possible. Which takes a bit of doing when you're (involved in) CONSTRUCTION".

217: As to the TUSSOCK sods that were to be placed on the roofs of the BUILDINGS, he says the first problem was pricing them. In the job specification, he continues, it was stated that the sods could be collected about a mile from the work site, so he had to calculate an estimate for transporting them.

222: Next problem was finding a way to excavate the sods 'The growth (of TUSSOCK) had to be a certain length...and they had to be six inches thick", any thinner and the TUSSOCK grass on them would have died off.

234: After having seen an area shorter than the recommended mile where the TUSSOCKS were growing well, he returned to DUNEDIN with an idea formulated from watching grass being turfed at the ST. CLAIR GOLF CLUB where he borrowed its turf-cutting machine.

240: With the help of mechanics at the FLETCHER workshop, he says, they devised a system using weights to modify the machine so that it could cut turfs at a six-inch depth rather than the usual two inches.

248: On his return to TAKARO, however, STOCKTON RUSH rejected any idea of cutting up the area the participant proposed, insisting that the sods should be cut from the area further away. "To do that, you had to ford a creek...which you could drive through with tractors."

258: So, a tractor was hired from one of the neighbouring farmers, but the cutting machine didn't work. "It just wouldn't do it, not six inches deep." So another farmer suggested a modified plough and undertook to take on the job.

266: Says they could only dig up whatever could be used at the time, otherwise the root system would die off. The next problem was stacking them on the trailer to a height that wouldn't damage the TUSSOCKS and finally back on site; it was getting them from the trailer onto the roof.

269: However, nature stepped in to stall the project even further. Heavy rain meant the creek filled up making it difficult to cross. "So we had to build a blooming bridge to get across." And then, he says, something happened to the farmer so they reverted to using one of the FLETCHER crew to do the ploughing.

273: CRANES were used to lift the sods onto the roofs. A couple of workers settled the sods into place, but their labour was slow and it transpired that for the final four weeks, he says, he had to take on the FOREMAN'S job and supervise the finishing stages of the contract.

280: Since the crew were not keen on placing the sods because it was slow, painstaking work, he says he opted to take over that part of the job as long as the men threw the sods from trailer to man to man and finally up to him.

286: "So they thought 'this is good, the big boss is up there' …sort of trying to bowl him over. So I was getting these sods…and they're reasonably weighty...and they were trying to do me...but after a while they found they couldn't, and em, they - one or two of them then got interested too (in placing them on the roofs)...so that's how they went up there…chain gang."

292: The roof structure consisted first of timber beams followed by two-inch-thick SARKING (wooden boards) fitted tongue and groove (T&G) and all in RIMU hardwood. Then, he says, battens were put on at three-foot intervals on top of which was placed BUTYNOL (a rubber membrane that is glued together).

309: Overall the roofs were water-tight except on one where a leak was discovered. "We found out that there was a nest of bees...right where it leaked. But it took a helluva lot of finding."

320: Affirms that any workers on the roofs had to wear rubber-soled gym shoes rather than hob-nailed boots "including me".

326: In those days there weren't the footwear regulations of today so most construction site workers wore gym shoes anyway, he says. He also compliments the team for being able to do that job with only one or two leaks occurring. "It was a darn good effort; actually...it could've been a disaster."

334: "When you flew over it, it was pretty hard to even pick (out) that the buildings were there... that was the idea...so that it blended in with the country."

340: While RIMU timber beams were used in the COTTAGES, it was really the main reception building that the huge exposed roof beams (60ft long, 20 inches wide and 6 inches thick) were designed to be a feature. "It had never been done anywhere before, not down this way, and I doubt whether it'd been done anywhere in NEW ZEALAND."

346: The heart RIMU beams, he says, were sourced from the TUATAPERE area. The sawmill at WINTON was modified and extended to cope with cutting such huge beams. "And also you've gotta get huge trees... you've gotta use something that has 20 x 6 in the middle of it so you're probably talking about a tree, you know, three foot (wide)." He later added that the beams in the LODGE were manually adzed to give an aged appearance — a difficult and specialized job.

352: The heart RIMU rough-sawn exterior cladding came from the HAAST area. Getting the material from the WEST COAST, he recalls, was another enterprising effort since all the roads from HAAST were gravel-surfaced in those days. Sometimes, he says, it took three days rather than the expected one for a truck to complete the journey because of trouble using the road, or vehicles breaking down.

366: The interior fireplaces were all made of boulder stones which were extracted from the nearby UPUKERORA RIVER, he says. However, rather than just any old boulders, he adds that they were carefully selected for colour and size.

370: A STONEMASON was contracted to do the work and it was he that chose each boulder or stone. "There's an art in doing stonework."

376: Agrees that it was a labour intensive contract, and particularly in those days when they had to mix their own CONCRETE. He further explains that to start with the challenge was getting the gravel, called aggregate; finding it required testing some possible extraction sites. Then it was a case of ripping up the top layer, digging out the aggregate, washing it, sieving it and then using it for CONCRETE. Finally, the ground had to be recovered to look as if it had been untouched.

384: "There's a lot of CONCRETE in that BUILDING... when you consider the swimming pool... we had anything up to three ANDERSON CONCRETE MIXERS in there." As well as tractors and CRANES.

394: Almost all of the labour and sub-contracted work, he replies, was brought in from elsewhere mainly because they were more reliable, had good backup resources such as their own labouring crews, and could offer more competitive rates than the local contractors.

407 He also considers that in the 1970s, at least, the contractors that were based in places like TE ANAU or CENTRAL OTAGO were focused more on residential BUILDING work rather than commercial. But he admits that has changed in more recent years.

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010: Having previously mentioned that the overall cost of BUILDING TAKARO LODGE was estimated at around $500,000, he says that excluded the finishing touches such as the fixtures, fittings and chattels.

020: On the OPENNG DAY, he says, his team was still removing all the work materials from the CAMP site. "I was invited to it… I didn't go 'cause we were shifting our CAMP then from there to MANAPOURI where we set it up to BUILD the MANAPOURI HOTEL." And on their way out "we were passing the guests coming in on that terrible road".

031: Mentions that STOCKTON RUSH didn't allow the guests to make their own way. They were brought in on his eight-seater INTERNATIONAL station wagons that were "unheard of in NEW ZEALAND at that time... flash machines".

050: The visitors, he thinks, would probably have flown into INVERCARGILL AIRPORT and been taken by road from there to the LODGE.

061: Comments that once completed, the site overall looked good and was "very tastefully done" as far as the finishing touches, such as the paintings that STOCKTON RUSH' S WIFE had chosen for the walls in the reception area.

068: The cost of an overnight stay was $120.00 per person which he estimates was probably about three times above the going rate for an above-average hotel room in NEW ZEALAND in 1970.

088: Amid public speculation over financial and domestic problems, RUSH was forced to close the place down within five years of the opening. He says RUSH reportedly sought government approval for an ASIAN investor but was turned down. However, after a long protracted legal battle which lasted several years, the government's decision was overturned.

120: Having overseen the BUILDING project from start to finish, he considers the highlight was completing it to the estimated price and on time. But he does consider it was "one of the weirdest jobs I've ever been involved in" in terms of its remote location and vulnerability to FIORDLAND'S varied weather conditions.

136: Having no facilities on site, he says, added to their difficulties. Even to cook meals for a gang of about eighty workers (at peak) was a major undertaking especially after they'd taken out the big cookhouse (for use on the MANAPOURI HOTEL job) before the landslip problem happened (as mentioned previously).

166: Organising their exit from the site was equally challenging, he says. Even to ensuring that the large amount of debris and rubbish that had collected was dealt with. "We dug a huge hole and right at the last minute put all that in there." They covered it over, he says, with strips of TUSSOCK sod "so that stuff is probably still in there today".

196: Assuredly, he agrees that the most disheartening part of the job was when the landslip occurred and some of the near-finished BUILDINGS were flooded out. Of particular annoyance was RUSH'S initial refusal to pay for the extra work required to tidy up the damaged area and put in a retaining wall. However, the cost was met by RUSH in the end.

203: "The damage it did was blooming terrible. I've still got photos of that...which I don't even like looking at."

223: Affirms that he worked for FLETCHER CONSTRUCTION until his retirement. "They're a very loyal company and I used to know all of the top ones in it. . . In fact I met the original SIR JAMES FLETCHER when I was a FOREMAN down in MATAURA." (1962)

232: He goes on to describe the low-key meeting which followed FLETCHER'S takeover, then, of the town's PAPER MILL. And comments that although they didn't have a proper introduction, he knew who SIR JAMES was as soon as he spoke in his "broad SCOTTISH voice, he never ever lost that"

263: States that FLETCHER'S started off in DUNEDIN and says that whenever SIR JANŒS visited for a progress update on the firm's business there, he started the day with a walk around the city "to see what he thought needed doing".

279: "He just knew everything that was going on, that guy."

288: It was 1989, he says, when he retired from FLETCHER'S after having risen to the position of MANAGER. Although he could have stayed on, he says that virtually overnight he'd developed a problem with his eyesight at the age of fifty-eight.

304: The problem which affected the retina of one eye seemed manageable, he says, until the same problem hit the other eye only twelve months later. As well as loss of visual acuity, he says there can also be an added loss of confidence.

326: Finding someone to replace him was a difficult task that FLETCHER'S was keen for him to accomplish before he retired. "That's always been one of my problems in that I always like doing everything myself."

332: A couple of people filled his shoes but neither lasted long, he says. "So in the finish they closed the branch down."

337: There was no slacking off once he did retire. First, he BUILT a house for his son and then a second one which is now his home. It took him two years to complete them "and then I took up GOLF".

340: Having commented that it was an unlikely SPORT to have taken up at a time when his eyesight was failing, he adds that he is something of a "guinea pig" at the DUNEDIN HOSPITAL because he appears to have found a way of by-passing the problem by employing his brain "to see past the holes" (in the retina).

354: Considers that the year spent in TE ANAU was "the best year of my life...and my WIFE'S as well, because with all the, em, near enough twenty-six families that were there (for FLETCHER'S), the wives had a real good social time".

360: Recalls there were four CHIPPIES (CARPENTERS) who arrived, out of the blue, from the WEST COAST, one of whom was (the late) BILL NEILSEN (former CHAIRMAN of the FIORDLAND MUSEUM TRUST).

362: says all four stayed at GEOFFREY ORBELL'S property (close to the boat harbour). "No trouble... good party people but behaved themselves and they were a real asset.'

365: When the HOTEL job was finished, he says, NEILSEN decided to work on another FLETCHER'S job in DUNEDIN (the SOUTHERN CROSS HOTEL). In later years, he says, NEILSEN became one of the top MANAGERS for the THC and worked in QUEENSTOWN, WANAKA, and at the TE ANAU HOTEL (he'd helped to BUILD).

399: Refers to his subsequent involvement in BUILDING the extension to the TE ANAU HOTEL, not long after he'd returned to DUNEDIN with his WIFE and family to do the SOUTHERN CROSS HOTEL job.

408: says he persuaded a friend, NEIL FAIRWEATHER, whose trade was in CARPENTRY to take up the job of FOREMAN on the TE ANAU HOTEL extension. "He said the biggest job he'd ever done was a garage, so I said well, HOTELS are a bit like that...just one garage stacked up on top of the other." FAIRWEATHER took up the challenge on condition that he was actively supported by the participant.

412: FAIRWEATHER later went on to become a skilled FOREMAN, he says "I'd always wanted to get hold of somebody that would do exactly as I'd tell him but still have gumption." Interview ends

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