Person recorded: Carley Jean Burnby Date of interview: 4 February 2004

Interviewer and abstractor: Morag Forrester

Tape counter: Sony TCM 939

Tape 1 Side A

002: Gives full name: Carley Jean BURNBY (née STEWART). Born in east GORE and went to EAST GORE PRIMARY SCHOOL. (DOB: 22/05/1930)

013: States FATHER’S name as Herbert Daniel STEWART and that he was an electrician; MOTHER’S name was Violet Anderson née HODGE.

018: Mentions her FATHER was born in EASTERN BUSH and lived at RIVERTON. His GRANDFATHER was the first MAYOR of the southern seaside town. Says her MOTHER was born at EDENDALE.

025: Says her ancestors were SCOTTISH (with a smattering of ENGLISH). GRANDAD HODGE from ARBOATH she thinks may have come out direct and worked as a shepherd before taking a job at J.E. WATSON’S in GORE as a grain buyer, shepherd and stock agent. (The STEWARTS came from ROTHESAY, ARGYLLSHIRE.)

039: Mentions her GREAT GRANDMOTHER in RIVERTON (Elizabeth STEVENS) was a half-sister of Captain HOWELL from the town. And that John STEVENS did a lot of exploring and they bought FAIRLIGHT STATION.

053: Recalls growing up with three SISTERS and one BROTHER – all older. Two are deceased.

063: States EAST GORE PRIMARY was a fairly big school; there were up to twenty pupils in each class.

074: Remembers that during WWII there were trenches dug on the school ground for air raid practice.

082: Says their education was structured around the traditional reading, writing and arithmetic.

090: Talks about going on to GORE HIGH SCHOOL attended by her fellow primary pupils as well as children from outlying rural districts including LUMSDEN.

097: Recalls her main subjects were typing, shorthand, history and English. Describes herself as a ‘so-so’ student mainly because of not coping with her fear of exams.

107: Replying to question, says at home she wasn’t treated any differently from her siblings, despite being the youngest. Also because she grew up alongside her next SISTER who worked at their FATHER’S shop in town, so was still living at home till she got married.

112: By then, CARLEY recalls, she’d started a nursing course at the local hospital.

120: Recalls her FATHER taking them off on trips out to farms where he’d been called out to do some electrical work. So it was in 1940 that she found herself on an overnight visit to the MILFORD ROAD CAMPS.

123: Remembers camping in a tent and getting washed out. They went up to MARIAN CAMP and got caught in a thunderstorm while walking. They stayed in one of the CAMP huts.

130: Says she was about twelve years old and her strongest memory is the thunderstorm and hearing the rocks fall into the HOLLYFORD RIVER. “It was a bit terrifying.”

135: But it wasn’t enough to deter her from taking subsequent trips with her FATHER who had an increasing number of wiring jobs to do in the TE ANAU BASIN.

137: Recalls her FATHER and BROTHER wired the lighting in the TE ANAU GLOWWORM CAVES.

142: Mentions again she trained as a NURSE and opted to BOARD at the SEDDON MEMORIAL HOSPITAL.

157: Describes having two uniforms, one long-sleeved which was more of a dress uniform, the other short-sleeved which was worn while working.

161: Admits that it was quite regimented teaching. Says there were no throwaway bandages – they had to be boiled and washed for re-use.

173: Mentions the hospital is no longer there having been demolished in recent years.

176: Explains why she gave up before completing the three-year course – it was again because of her fear of exams. “And then I met GEORGE at a dance, didn’t I?”(laughs).

180: Says GEORGE BURNBY, her HUSBAND, is seventeen years older than she. They met at a dance – it was part of her social life to go to dances in the district.

186: Recalls he was trying to persuade someone to go to a dance with him in OWAKA. Says she was one of two girls who went with him.

195: Says they met around 1950 and were married late 1951. In that time she had left GORE and took a job at CHERRY FARM, SEACLIFF.

202: Some tape distortion

207: States that after they married they went to live in TARRAS.

209: In response to question, says the wedding was held in the EAST GORE Presbyterian Church – because GEORGE was a divorcee they couldn’t get married in the Anglican Church.

212: Mentions there being children from his previous marriage, including son BOB.

219: Recalls their honeymoon was at RIVERSDALE for the night and then went off to TARRAS where they lived in a RACEMAN’S cottage at first. Then they moved house after GEORGE began working for the rabbit board there. But within a week, they left and she went back to live with her parents in GORE.

232: Says GEORGE shifted to stay with friends in TE ANAU working for the MINISTRY OF WORKS until the house at KNOBS FLAT was ready to move into.

238: Mentions that by then STEWART, their SON, was three months old.

246: In response to question, says GEORGE decided to take up the job of manager for the AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION TOURIST LODGE at CASCADE CREEK after the previous manager left, in 1957.

255: States that while they were living at KNOBS FLAT, GEORGE was still doing road maintenance work for the MOW.

259: Talks about JOE HANNAH living at SMITHY CREEK, a single man stayed in quarters at KNOBS FLAT. The BEATTIES lived at the RETFORD COTTAGE; FRED TOPPING lived at MICKEY MOUSE town (before BOYD CREEK).

269: Adds there was the SAWMILL at WESNEY CREEK, where the BROWNS lived.

271: Mentions that the MOW foreman, TOM PLATO, would let them off for a day in town if the works truck needed repairs.

277: Says the baby was very robust and mentions that falling pregnant within eighteen months after he’d been born meant her checkup visits to GORE included him being dropped off at PLUNKETS (early childcare).

287: In response to question, says she didn’t miss other adult company. And that she believes in those days she was quite placid so she and GEORGE got on okay. Besides by the time she’d completed the baking and household duties there was no time to get bored.

290: Says cooking was done on a coal range, lights were run on a twelve-volt generator. Jellies and other things were set and refrigerated in the creek. Adds it was the same when they moved to CASCADE CREEK.

304: Admits there weren’t as many travellers going up there as now – the road was still gravelled.

297: Describes how they ordered stores once a week from TE ANAU and in winter if the road was blocked with snow, a grader was used to clear it so they weren’t cut off too long.

314: Recalls she kept a vegetable garden.

327: Tells more about shifting up to CASCADE CREEK and the AA HOSTEL which could house up to forty people in little MOW huts.

334: Says they didn’t have the canvas sides on them, but they were the same huts with two beds in each. There was a big communal kitchen, dining-room and lounge.

338: Recalls she and the family lived in a separate flat which had a kerosene fridge and diesel engine so they had proper electricity. Cooking/heating was by coal range and open fires.

347: Says they lived there till about 1958 when STEWART was enrolled at TE ANAU PRIMARY school after a short spell of CORRESPONDENCE schooling.

351: Mentions they’d already bought a section of land in DUSKY STREET (formerly MAURU ST.) and moved there.

361: Describes it as a quarter-acre section, one of the first ballots in the town.

371: States there already being quite a few buildings in the town, including the POST OFFICE, THC, RADFORD’S STORE (OPPOSITE WATERWINGS). And a few houses and cribs in the manuka further down near the present DOC offices.

388: Mentions ALF EXCELL, the builder; the school was one-roomed at first.

394: Recalls that GEORGE stayed at CASCADE CREEK for a couple of season while she and the children lived in town. He then moved to town to work at the new bar extension of the HOTEL.

397: Says that job didn’t last long so GEORGE decided to take up commercial FISHING on the FIORDLAND COAST. He worked on the WESTWARD HO with JACK EGERTON. This was in the early 1960s.

404: Explains it was about that time she started up a BED & BREAKFAST business, or as she calls it BED & TRAY. Says it was called KINDROCHIT LODGE which was extended to include extra units and a double-storey building at the back with garage, laundry and a communal dining-room/lounge upstairs where she served breakfasts to guests.

413: Says trade was busy as there was little competition – only MATAI LODGE and THC. Recalls PETE SULEMANOVICH started what’s now the LUXMORE HOTEL.

Tape 1 Side A Ends

Tape 1 Side 2 Starts

007: Says GEORGE was away from home most of the time. Considers she brought the children up. With that, the RADIO-OPERATING work and the B&B she couldn’t socialise much.

025: Mentions it was 1968 when she got her licence to do the RADIO work and gave it up in 1983.

029: Details the normal day in those years. After the B&B breakfasts, the morning RADIO schedule began at about nine. Involved ordering stores, ringing fishermen’s wives with updates on their men’s whereabouts on the coast, check with other RADIO OPERATORS.

042: Says then it was on to cleaning the rooms at the B&B, followed by baking, then possibly a lunchtime RADIO schedule, with one every evening at 7.30pm.

054: Admits being aware of the responsibility of the RADIO OPERATOR’S job. Lists there being one at COLAC BAY, STEWART ISLAND, BLUFF, WAIKAWA & PORT CHALMERS.

066: Says there were a lot of boats along the coast, some from NELSON but many from TE ANAU.

072: Says her call sign was ZLCE.

081: Recalls an incident in which she put out a call to a vessel and didn’t get a reply, which was unusual for this particular skipper. He was reported missing at sea. His wife, she says, still lives in the BASIN.

103: Mentions she took over the RADIO work from the wife of the co-owner of the ABEL TASMAN when they moved to NELSON.

121: Explains the fishermen would stay away about a week to ten days and usually had enough stores, but sometimes took a few grocery orders if required.

135: Says she never went fishing with GEORGE. But one time she went to STEWART ISLAND with him and five others for a weekend.

143: Sometimes, she says, she and the kids would fly into wherever he was working and go on board then. Considers she’s flown over just about every SOUND in FIORDLAND.

147: Admits she would have liked GEORGE to have settled down in TE ANAU instead of going fishing.

152: Mentions being disappointed that STEWART followed his father’s line of work. Believes he had the ability to be anything he wanted but GEORGE needed a crew so he did that at about 17 years old.

172: States fishing was not a lucrative occupation. “Paid the mortgage, that was about all.” (laughs)

177: Mentions she sold the B&B in the early 70s after ROZANNE finished schooling.

187: Says they moved to MATAI ST. where she carried on doing the RADIO work.

194: Recalls having two motel-related jobs to boost income.

199: Mentions that during the off-season, GEORGE would do boat repairs. And one year he decided to go SCALLOP fishing in NELSON, against everyone’s advice because it was a bad season for scalloping.

211: Clarifies that GEORGE’S first boat was the ABEL TASMAN in partnership with ROD RYAN who later sold his half to GEORGE. He then bought the MISS AKAROA from its builder/operator. GEORGE BRASSELL who was working at DEEP COVE.

218: Says the ABEL TASMAN got wrecked so he was left with the MISS AKAROA.

233: Continues that after he sold his boat in NELSON, he ran the WESTERN EXPLORER in MILFORD for its DUNEDIN owner as a passenger-carrying charter vessel. And did that till he retired.

250: Explains problems would occur with his being away from home for long spells at a time.

256: Admits to growing independent of him as a result.

276: Recalls her teenage years arriving in TE ANAU at dusk, getting to the top of the hill and seeing odd little lights, indicating each home’s generator was on.

281: Says the MOW had about four houses situated opposite the present primary school.

286: States that Luxmore Drive didn’t exist, instead the road came in round the LAKEFRONT. There was the post office at MEMORIAL corner, opposite that was MRS BAKER’S boarding house and the hand-pumped petrol kiosk. There were a few private jetties and the wharf for the TAWERA.

294: Describes the land as scrubby with lots of manuka. And a gravel road going up the valley past TE ANAU DOWNS. The BEATTIES lived at the RETFORD and the road workers camped at the side of the road.

300: Remembers FRED TOPPING carrying his shovel on his bike, JOE HANNAH at SMITHY CREEK was the same. The three BROWN brothers at the SAWMILL at WESNEY CREEK had houses there. One at the right hand side at the bridge and two on the left by the creek.

311: Says it was the worst thing DOC ever did - demolishing it (the SAWMILL) - because now it would have been of historical interest. Adds it was the same with the LUPINS which DOC killed.

317: Mentions the cherry tree at SMITHY CREEK which DOC chopped down as soon as JOE HANNAH was no longer living there. They demolished his home too. But, she says, they still haven’t beaten the LUPINS.

319: Says the LUPINS started at CASCADE CREEK long before the BURNBYS were there. Says there was a woman, whose husband worked on the road, and they lived in a house on the righthand side of the road at the bridge. She had a lovely garden and a tea kiosk. And she had LUPINS which went down the CREEK. “They haven’t been able to get rid of them.” (laughs)

330: Talks about the dining hall from HENDERSON’S CAMP being shifted and placed where the present MITRE 10 stands.

343: Recalls that for social life, they would attend all the dances because GEORGE played the button accordion for them. And it got to the stage she got sick of sitting around and began playing accordion too.

349: Says they played old IRISH/SCOTTISH tunes and it’s only in the last ten years or so that he’s had to give up the accordion because of arthritis in his hands.

365: Mentions PETE SULEMANOVICH and his wife MARGARET who ran the store at CASCADE for BILL CAGUE. Then PETE started his STEAK HOUSE before the LUXMORE HOTEL. Opposite that, the SHELTONS built the FOUR SQUARE grocery store.

372: Remembers DES ARTHUR had an electrical store, with a billiard room. And he would do haircuts for men. And DOC ORBELL built the A-frame shop. Then the SPEDENS built a SPORTS shop. And the BNZ started up, where it is now, but a smaller building.

376: Recalls the policeman at LUMSDEN, before the town had its own POLICE office. Says he was an IRISHMAN called MR FEELEY. “He hated coming up to the VALLEY for anything because he reckoned 'the bleeding hills were gonna fall in on ’im.'” (laughs)

381: Mentions that DAVY GUNN went missing while they were at KNOBS. And the policeman had to lead the search party. Says GEORGE and his son BOB helped in the search.

388: States there was a murder case in the VALLEY too. A man was buried there, up past SMITHY CREEK. Apparently the felon brought the body up in a car, then shoved it over the bank and pushed the shingle down on top of him.

391: Says they did catch him, found the body and all.

398: Moving on, says that after LANDS AND SURVEY started its development programme, the town grew quite rapidly.

403: Describes MILFORD as being popular for visitors then. There was only the hotel and a boat.

409: Recalls the AA took over a construction camp down by the river at MILFORD. Says she and the family ended up working there towards the end of one season at CASCADE because its manager had walked out.

418: Considers MILFORD was starting to develop then, but nothing like today. The road was still gravel and the bridges weren’t terribly good.

Tape 1 Side 2 Ends

Tape 2 Side 1 Starts

000: Opens with question about power generation. CARLEY says that the ones in each home were only 12-horse or 6-horse powered and you would hear a “thump, thump, thump” when they were on.

022: Refers again to her FATHER working on the electrics for the GLOWWORM CAVES, saying she accompanies him a couple of times. “Held screwdrivers and pliers and watched him climb ladders.”

034: Recalls that in order to enter the CAVES then, you had to “practically crawl in on your hands and knees, they’ve opened it up since but….it was an experience working in there.”

043: Says it was not long after LAWSON (BURROWS) had found them. And that as both families came from GORE, her FATHER knew LAWSON, which was how he got involved in helping out. Adds he also knew WILSON CAMPBELL (the other half of FIORDLAND TRAVEL).

061: Discusses the ‘Lit-up Balls’ that were held when a place was connected up to the national grid. Says whenever one was held, everybody went along.

064: Mentions playing music for the PLAINS STATION’S Lit-Up Ball when the new WOOLSHED was completed, and at BURWOOD STATION owned then by the HAZLETTS.

071: Remembers there being quite a few dances around TE ANAU then.

082: Explains she took up playing the accordion alongside GEORGE because it was another way of meeting people.

087: Says she’d had piano lessons as a child so had the basics for the accordion.

092: Recalls the band members were LAWSON BURROWS on drums, BOYD CRAIG on piano, GEORGE RADFORD, GRAHAM SPROULL on saxophone and LINDSAY SUTHERLAND on saxophone (after she’d dropped out).

112: Agrees it was a much smaller community then. And once the contractors started (with LANDS & SURVEY development) it began to grow.

117: Adds that the development of the VENISON industry (60s/70s) also brought growth. And that the airport was situated where the present MEDICAL CENTRE stands. There was RITCHIES AIR SERVICES.

124: Remembers getting milk delivered in “billies” (billy cans) from the KEAST BROTHERS who reared dairy cattle where the INDUSTRIAL ESTATE lies. “You put your billy out for your milk”.

136: Mentions ROY CRAIG was POSTMASTER. Adds that the present WESTPAC building started out as a cafeteria and she used to work in the kitchen at nights. JOHN PLATO and MIN MOFFAT and KEITH CRAIG and his wife were owner/operators.

155: Recalls TERRY GILLIGAN’S transport garage being built, the FIORDLAND VENISON FACTORY and the helicopter hunting – all of which created growth.

165: In response to question, refers again to the hotel building a bar extension (now the MOOSE BAR) in the late 60s.

174: Mentions GRAHAM SPROULL providing a fishing charter service taking people out on his boat. Says his wharf is now the (WATERWINGS) FLOATPLANE wharf.

182: Recalls that at the REAL JOURNEYS wharf where the TAWERA was berthed, there had also been other vessels, such as the MOUNT MAURY, then the JIMMY MAC (JAMES MCKERROW).

188: Replying to question, says some of schoolchildren not sent to the HYDRO VILLAGE school went to schools in INVERCARGILL or further afield. Says the HYDRO school had good teachers. 196: On health care, says the DOCTOR originally came from LUMSDEN and it wasn’t until RADFORDS let them use their lounge followed by the office extension in their store that the GPs visited on a regular schedule. “Lumsden’s a long way when somebody’s sick.”

213: Talks about her GRANDDAUGHTER growing up in TE ANAU saying she considers children now are maturing earlier than when her own children were growing up.

233: In response to question, recommends that town planners should not allow it to get too big, nor should they spoil what it already has. “We don’t want another QUEENSTOWN.”

240: Explains her reason for living in TE ANAU. “You’ve only got to drive up the road a wee way and you can go and sit by the lake or something in peace. That’s what I like, peace and quiet.”

252: Says although she grew up in GORE, she’s glad she went on trips with her FATHER as a child and considers herself a backwoods person.

276: Mentions she and GEORGE have stayed at their present address since 1991.

290: Recalls GEORGE going into retirement at the age of 75 (now aged 90). Summarises his many jobs – rabbiter, deer stalker, cook, possum hunter, (as well as road worker and fisherman). If a job didn’t suit or he didn’t get on with the boss, he’d move on.

300: Says GEORGE had one BROTHER and two SISTERS - the younger one still lives in BALCLUTHA.

303: States he was born in GORE and his FATHER had a dairy farm at TUTERAU. But he walked off it during the DEPRESSION and went up NORTH CANTERBURY to go rabbiting. GEORGE had finished his primary schooling in MIDDLEMARCH/SUTTON area and followed in his FATHER’S footsteps by also going rabbiting.

313: Describes GEORGE as an outdoorsman all his life. Adds that he worked a few seasons on FAIRLIGHT STATION cooking and preparing the packhorses for the musterers. And that he worked on the main trunk line (railway) in the KAIKOURA area before WWII.

325: Mentions it was at the start of his first marriage. He and his first wife had a daughter who died as a toddler after an accident involving boiling water.

329: Says not long afterward, he went into the NZRAF, working in the officer’s mess as a cook. (Later she adds that he had also been in the 6th Independent Mounted Rifles, stationed at BLENHEIM. He then moved on to KAIKOURA then back to BLENHEIM)

350: Describes him as being able to “turn his hand to a lot of things”.

359: Interview closes/ Tape 2 Side A ends