Interviewee: Cyril Richard (Dick) Deaker

Date: 9 July 2007

Interviewer: Morag Forrester

Abstractor: Morag Forrester

Tape counter: Sony TCM 939

Tape 1 Side A

007: States he is CYRIL RICHARD DEAKER, born on 31 DECEMBER 1944 at BALCLUTHA adding that his MOTHER’S (ENID) family has been connected to the BULL CREEK area near MILTON for more than ninety years.

017: His FATHER (PERCY), he says, was brought up in the MANIOTOTO area. Mentions that his FATHER had only just passed away (the day before) in his 93rd year.

023: Replies that PERCY DEAKER had been a carpenter but also worked at the FINEGAND MEATWORKS in BALCLUTHA after serving as a CORPORAL in the NZ ARMY during WWII, mostly on the battlefields of EGYPT.

039: His early school years, he says, were spent at NORTHEAST VALLEY PRIMARY followed by TAIERI HIGH SCHOOL in MOSGIEL. Adds that his parents lived in the same house in NORTHEAST VALLEY for sixty-two years.

044: Mentions that he left SCHOOL in 1963 (aged 18) adding that as a boy his two interests were HUNTING and FLYING, although his parents weren’t keen on his pursuing the latter.

050: He first went HUNTING, he says, around MANAPOURI and the HOLLYFORD VALLEY when he was sixteen years old. This was in the early 1960s, he adds, before the introduction of HELICOPTERS or MEATHUNTING. It was SKINS or TAILS that he sold which paid for the cost of travelling to FIORDLAND.

060: The journey, he recalls, was by steam-powered train to LUMSDEN (from DUNEDIN) and then by bus to TE ANAU. During the school holidays he and his BROTHER, BILL, along with a few friends, would take off on HUNTING trips to FIORDLAND.

076: Says he is the eldest in the family of SIX children and names the others as BILL, FRANCES, SYDNEY, GRAHAM and LYNLEY. He adds that both SYDNEY and GRAHAM also worked in the VENISON INDUSTRY – the former as a HELICOPTER PILOT, the latter as a SHOOTER.

093: Referring back to his early education, he says he “hated” SCHOOL which was backed up by a teacher’s comment in a report card. Adds that he did achieve his SCOOL leaving certificate after a second attempt.

125: On leaving SCHOOL, he says he immediately “hopped on a bus” to QUEENSTOWN where he was met by MAX KERSHAW, CHIEF RANGER of the FOREST SERVICE (FS) (SOUTHERN REGION). From there, he continues, he headed for MOSSBURN where he was met by that area’s FS RANGER, JOHN VON TUNZELMAN.

133: Goes on to say that he immediately began working as an FS DEER CULLER in the TAKITIMU MOUNTAINS. “Just SHOOTING DEER for tokens – used to get about £2/DEER…and all the food was supplied and ammunition. I used a .303 RIFLE.”

140: According to official records, he says he SHOT about 1000 DEER in one year as a CULLER. “I remember SHOOTING eighteen (in) one day.”

147: Recalls that £2/DEER (TAIL) was “quite a lot of money” when compared with the average weekly wage in 1963/64 was between £15 and £20.

152: Describes the living conditions as “pretty rugged”. Most of the FS huts, he says, were small bivvies with a height of only 4ft 6in and “usually full of mice”.

166: Says he (and other CULLERS) worked solo moving from one hut to another. At the end of each month there was a roundup of workers at the base camp to tally up with the FS RANGER.

179: Explains further how he worked through his patch with perhaps a few days at the SPENCE BURN hut, covering a few of the valleys in that area before ending up at the head of the WAIRAKI (RIVER) or at the head of the TELFORD or the REDCLIFF and then back at the APARIMA FORKS/MT HAMILTON area.

186: Supplies, he says, were airdropped into each hut and mentions taking some photographs of the parachutes descending from FIXED WING AIRCRAFT.

191: His diet, he recalls, consisted of rice, VENISON, “had to make your own bread which you got good at after a while”, tinned peas, beans, jam “lemon and melon jam, yeah, it was never all that sort of palatable”, sugar and condensed milk.

205: Working solo, he says, was never a problem for him. “I loved what I was doing…going out HUNTING…every day was different.”

214: Provides a description of TAILING the DEER, saying that they were essentially kept as tokens from which the FS calculated how many animals were being CULLED.

222: Explains that the CULLERS also had to cut an eighteen inch strip of SKIN attached to the TAIL to prevent the SKINS being sold privately. The extra strip formed into a loop made it easier to hook the TAILS onto a CULLER’S belt. He later added that this was the easiest way of transporting the tokens back to camp. Person recorded: Dick Deaker

226: At the end of the month, he continues, the TAILS were handed in, a TALLY was then calculated and the CULLERS were paid for their individual total. They were also allocated three rounds of ammunition for each animal killed.

242: While the .303 RIFLE was his first weapon, he says he moved up to a .222 MAJESTIC FEATHERWEIGHT. “I still own that today.” He affirms that the .303 (an ex-military RIFLE) was commonly used adding that it was cheap to buy as was the ammunition for it.

248: Says the second RIFLE cost £22 and was bought on the recommendation of FS RANGERS, MAX EVANS and JOHN VON TUNZELMAN.

253: Replies that he worked at that job until having to undertake COMPULSORY MILITARY TRAINING (CMT) at the age of twenty-one (1965). Says he spent three months at BURNHAM MILITARY CAMP and was none too pleased at his income being slashed from £40 a week to £8.

258: “Discipline is what it’s all about…so all of a sudden I’m sort of a wild guy lives in the bush on my own…next thing I’m launched into short back and sides and military uniform. So that sort of straightened me out for a bit.”

267: Mentions that as well as the TAKITIMUS, he had also worked as an FS CULLER in the MURCHISON MOUNTAINS, near TE ANAU. Says there were probably greater numbers of DEER there. “The most I ever SHOT in the MURCHISON MTS was thirty-eight one day.” He later refined the location as being LAKE TE ANAU/UPPER CAMELOT.

276: Explains that on that particular day he was working in the CAMELOT area and mentions that around that time he was employed with another man, JOE DRISCOLL, on track cutting and formation. Gives some background on DRISCOLL whose life has been recorded in a book titled THE LONER. “He was a real wild larrikin.”

299: After CMT, he replies, he went straight back into the bush. He adds that by then he had gained his private PILOT’S licence. “I always wanted to learn to FLY, even when I was a kid…I used to watch TIGER MOTHS and that doing aerobatics and I always wanted to do that.”

306: He bought a TIGER MOTH, he says, in 1966 for £400. It was an ex-airforce (NZRAF) plane which on decommissioning was used for topdressing by HEWETT AVIATION (of MOSSBURN). “I had it for two years and I did about 200 hours in it.”

319: Recalls FLYING it into the LAKE MAVORA area and LAKE ALABASTER and that he did some recreational HUNTING with it.

322: Replies that it was not too difficult to get a private licence, although he had to sit the written exam twice…a recurring theme for him as he lists other similar situations. “Everything I do I seem to have to sit it twice but I eventually get it.” He later added that he also has two commercial pilot licences – one registered in NEW ZEALAND, the other in CANADA.

331: HUGH SKILLING, he says, of the OTAGO AERO CLUB at TAIERI was his FLYING instructor, adding that it cost him £3.10s. After about seven hours, he says, he went solo

337: Tape stopped briefly during which time he refers to his reception on arrival at MOSSBURN to start work as a CULLER. So, when the tape re-starts, he continues this theme explaining that the FS RANGER, JOHN VON TUNZELMAN, was waiting to greet the new worker but alighting from the bus were some adults and a schoolboy, thinking that the participant was younger than eighteen, based on his appearance.

353: Says he sold the TIGER MOTH two years after buying it. The purchaser was an AMERICAN living in CALIFORNIA where it is kept in a museum in SAN JOSÉ. “I sold it for £800 and when I finally cashed the cheque, I got $1600.” With that money, he says, he bought his first house in MACKINNON LOOP, TE ANAU.

364: 1967, he mentions, was also the year he got MARRIED to DIANE PATRICIA HALL. At about the same time (1968) he went to work for local fisherman, GEORGE BURNBY – crayfishing on the WEST COAST. This was followed by a couple of months crayfishing in the CHATHAM ISLANDS with MURRAY SCHOFIELD and ERROL BROWN. MURRAY SCHOFIELD had been CHIEF RANGER for the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK and ERROL BROWN (and his brother, PETER BROWN) were fishermen on the WEST COAST who both later worked on VENISON RECOVERY as SHOOTERS.

375: Describes being in the CHATHAMS as “interesting” and briefly mentions that while there he gained a SKIPPER’S ticket (SHIPMASTER’S licence).

383: In total, he says, he spent about a year on crayfishing boats. He affirms that being at the CHATHAMS meant being away from home and family for long spells with only limited communication networks.

398: Comparing the two industries, he considers he earned more money on DEERHUNTING than CRAYFISHING.

401: Returning to his AVIATION interests, he replies that in 1968/69 he bought a PIPER SUPER CUB costing $5000. He kept it for four years, adding that it was a good machine for getting in and out of small airstrips and on rough terrain. “You could land on the edge of mountains on ’em which I eventually did do.” [He later added that EVAN MEREDITH of the FIORDLAND VENISON FACTORY, and TIM WALLIS and DOUG JONES of GAME COLLECTION LTD., guaranteed to buy any VENISON he brought out, placing him in a position to afford the PIPER SUPER CUB (ZK-BPM)].

415: Mentions having only one accident while flying it – in the GREBE VALLEY – with his BROTHER, SYD as passenger and carrying four DEER CARCASSES. He says he tried to execute a take-off from the small airstrip there but was “overloaded for the conditions of the day”. He later added that the cost of repairs was about $40,000 through his insurance.

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004: Describes how it took him several return trips in and out of the forest around the EGLINTON VALLEY when he used the SUPER CUB for MEATHUNTING in the late 1960s. As he usually began HUNTING at about 5am, he was able to use the MILFORD ROAD (which was still unsealed) at the EAST BRANCH section as a delivery point for CARCASSES and as an airstrip, long before road traffic users were up and about. 028: Admitting that some of the CARCASSES would have been a heavy weight, he recalls only one occasion when he was unable to lift one into the SUPER CUB. “That was in the QUINTIN (MILFORD TRACK)…I SHOT two STAGS there and they weighed over 300lbs…each…that’s dressed out.”

041: In the end, he says, he had to cut the CARCASSES in half, reducing their value considerably. Mentions that at this stage, he was working as a self-employed commercial MEATHUNTER.

052: Says he sold the MEAT to the FIORDLAND VENISON FACTORY in TE ANAU owned and run by EVAN MEREDITH in the industrial area of the town.

063: The price paid by the FACTORY was about 45d/lb for the VENISON, he says, and the CARCASSES ranged between 60lbs and 200lbs. Before delivery, he adds, the MEAT had to be GUTTED, usually immediately after it had been SHOT.

085: As well as the areas already mentioned, he says one of his regular HUNTING grounds was in the GREBE VALLEY where there was an airstrip, the PYKE VALLEY and the KAIPO VALLEY.

108: Mentions he accumulated about 1000 hours in the PIPER SUPER CUB and that he was often accompanied on his HUNTING trips by GARY HOLLOWS who some years later (1989) died in a HELICOPTER crash. Aviation fuel for the aircraft, he says, cost 30c/gallon (c. 4 litres) in 1969.

127: Replies that by then he had one SON, MARK, and that a second SON, GLEN, was born within a couple of years of the first. A daughter, KATHRYN, completed the family in 1976.

132: “The HUNTING came first…TE ANAU was sort of a man’s town, I s’pose…It was an era when…you could make good money. But I was doing what I loved doing too…HUNTING.”

146: Considers he was the only person MEATHUNTING with a PIPER CUB in TE ANAU at that time, although there were PILOTS doing the same on the WEST COAST at HAAST. Other MEATHUNTERS around FIORDLAND, he says, were using jetboats and FLOATPLANES; he mentions EVAN BRUNTON and RUSSELL DAWSON as two people he remembers doing so from DOUBTFUL SOUND and GORDON ANDERSON at BREAKSEA SOUND.

156: Mentions he has a hearing impairment and was therefore declined on medical grounds when he applied for a COMMERCIAL PILOT’S licence. “I eventually got around all that…still deaf…but that came after working for TIM WALLIS for about two years.” He later added that radio systems and head sets in the HELICOPTERS have improved over the years.

170: It was in the early 1970s, he says, while he was MEATHUNTING in the PIPER CUB around the ROCKBURN VALLEY, east of THE DIVIDE, when he was approached by WALLIS to join his company (LUGGATE GAME PACKERS/ALPINE HELICOPTERS) which was operating HILLER 12E HELICOPTERS for VENISON RECOVERY in the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK (FNP).

174: Having agreed, he says WALLIS paid for his HELICOPTER FLYING LESSONS and accommodation expenses in ARROWTOWN in the winter of 1972. “It took about three months for me to get my licence…a private PILOT licence in HELICOPTERS. He said you don’t need a commercial licence ’cause you’re not getting paid for the FLYING. I was only gettin’ paid for the DEER.”

186: Says his lessons were performed in a HUGHES 300B model HELICOPTER with DON SPARY (LGP/ALPINE OPERATIONS MANAGER). Once he accumulated 70 hours in the machine, he says, his VENISON RECOVERY work for LGP/ALPINE began. He describes how his first day transpired.

200: Tape stopped and restarted.

203: Continues where he left off with a depiction of his first day SHOOTING at the DEER from the HELICOPTER and then PICKING them up slung on a line beneath the machine. It took place above the CATTLE FLAT airstrip in the DART VALLEY (east side).

215: After the animals had been SHOT and GUTTED, he says they swapped seats so that he took over the controls while SPARY was in the SHOOTER’S seat and had to hop out to sling the CARCASSES onto the machine. As time was of the essence, he says he began feeling nervous about the possible risk of running out of fuel. SPARY, he adds, was taking up valuable time “messing around in the scrub” as he was assembling the CARCASSES for hookup.

229: Says SPARY hooked on about five DEER and “I fell off the side of the hill with them” and as he was FLYING at about 50mph he was nervously checking the fuel gauge. Still about five miles from his destination where a truck was waiting for the load of DEER the gauge was as low as he felt comfortable with – possibly only 2/3 gallons in the tank.

241: Immediately, he says, he landed the machine, got out and ran the five miles to meet the truck driver who wasn’t expecting to see him on foot. The driver brought the truck to as far up the road end as possible from where they both carried jerry cans of fuel to the parked HELICOPTER. SPARY, meanwhile was still on the ridge waiting for him to return to pick him up.

252: With all the running around, he says, he didn’t get back to SPARY for about three hours. As his waiting time grew, SPARY, he adds, had begun to fear the worst – that the participant had crashed on his first day.

255: In the end, he says, the instructor commended him for doing the right thing since running out of fuel leads to one conclusion “continuing flight over rough terrain with no fuel…you’re only going to end up killing yourself”.

263: “So that was a very very good lesson to me on my first day out about fuel management and I really never had any problems all the rest of my FLYING career because of that.”

274: Replies that when he started with WALLIS, he received a cheque for the VENISON at the end of the month when each HUNTER’S tally would be calculated and paid accordingly. Person recorded: Dick Deaker

287: “I used to make about $60,000 to $70,000 (annually) back in the early 70s…working for Tim. But it was hard work…We worked every day it was fine…he was a good boss. He left you on your own provided you were producing…(that) the trucks were always coming in full of DEER because he had huge overheads.”

293: As an example, he says a new HUGHES 300 HELICOPTER cost about $47,000 then.

298: As well as the HUGHES 300, he says he also worked with the HILLER 12E accumulating about 1000 hours FLYING on that model. It used more fuel, he says than the HUGHES but could carry more weight than the 300s, although not as nimble. He explains the different blade structure of the machines.

313: By 1974, he says, WALLIS (through ALPINE HELICOPTERS), had about fifteen CHOPPERS working on VENISON RECOVERY.

317: Replies that his first SHOOTER was RUSSELL DAWSON, followed by BERNIE MILROY, MAURICE KANE (brother of fellow SHOOTER turned PILOT, JIM KANE), RAY NICHOLSON. Both NICHOLSON and KANE died in helicopter accidents in the 1980 while working on VENISON RECOVERY.

323: Describes the typical working day as starting at daybreak in the HELICOPTER and off into whichever area they were assigned to work. The FNP, he adds, was divided into three areas (by the authorities) and that he often worked the northern section which covered BIG BAY to CASWELL SOUND through to the EGLINTON RIVER mouth.

328: For six months, he continues, he covered the southern end around LAKES POTERITERI and HAUROKO. “It was always windier…anywhere south of DOUBTFUL SOUND is affected by the westerlies and sou’west weather.”

334: States that as part of his work, he ferried GROUNDSHOOTERS into the PARK, each of them dropped off in different places and each evening he was back to pick up the CARCASSES and take them to a waiting truck for transport back to TE ANAU. The truck, he says, was parked either at the HOLLYFORD airstrip, at MILFORD SOUND, the road end at LAKE HAUROKO or at LAKE MONOWAI.

346: Some SHOOTING was also done from the HELICOPTER, he says, until eventually it took over as the main method of operation for ALPINE CREWS. The CARCASSES, he says, were picked up where they were SHOT and he explains how it was done with a STROP hooked underneath the HELICOPTER.

357: About a dozen could be brought out at once by this method, he says, weighing up to 100lbs apiece. The PILOT, he says, would often position the machine on a cliff-face (or a ridge) to take advantage of “falling away with the DEER…sort of half-pie out of control…to get a bit of forward speed and once it got cruising along you could actually cruise along straight level with a heavy load on”.

370: Safety for the CREW, he remembers, was an issue that grew in importance especially as the number of fatal HELICOPTER accidents increased.

376: States he was not often involved in work on the marine vessels that LGP/ALPINE installed in the SOUNDS as holding pens/processing units for the DEER being brought out of the PARK. Other PILOTS, such as BILL BLACK, he says spent more time on the RANGINUI, KOTONUI or HOTUNUI.

380: By then, he says, WALLIS had a large outfit to co-ordinate and considers the logistics required to keep it all operational must have been “a blooming nightmare”.

386: By 1974, he says, the company had bought HUGHES 500C model HELICOPTERS which cost about $120,000 each. He describes these as much faster than the 300 model, yet still manoeuvrable.

400: Originally developed for use by the US military during the VIETNAM WAR, he says he enjoyed FLYING the 500 which was able to carry three people without losing much power. The DEER could be brought out more quickly, he says, because of its 140mph-cruise speed.

406: “I’ve done about 8000 hours (FLYING) in a HUGHES 500 model…they’re a very very good HELICOPTER to FLY…and very safe…provided you’re careful with them.”

411: Affirms that by 1974 there were a lot of private operators moving into the FIORDLAND area on VENISON RECOVERY missions despite licence restrictions by the authorities to use HELICOPTERS for RECOVERY work within the PARK boundaries. By then, he says, WALLIS had teamed up with three others to form GAME COLLECTION LTD. The other parties, he says, included EVAN MEREDITH of the FIORDLAND VENISON FACTORY in TE ANAU, DOUG JONES who had a processing factory in CROMWELL, and PADDY KILGARIFF, owner/operator of the VENISON FACTORY at MOSSBURN. GAME COLLECTION LTD (GCL), he says, was granted sole rights to use HELICOPTERS for RECOVERY in the FNP.

[LGP was first granted a licence for VENISON RECOVERY in the PARK in 1967. After forming the partnership with MEREDITH, KILGARIFF and JONES, a second licence was issued to LGP-ALPINE/GCL for the period 1970-1973]

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004: Discussion picks up on his off-tape comments about why several private individuals and other operators were willing to take the risk of prosecution by working illegally in the FNP in the early-to-mid 1970s. The financial returns, he suggests, were too compelling since within three months of VENISON RECOVERY a $47,000-HUGHES 300 would have been paid off.

019: Legally, he says, there was little the authorities could do to prevent those operators working in the PARK since it was almost impossible to physically catch them SHOOTING the DEER and more particularly the WAPITI.

026: Anyone that was caught and faced a court appearance was usually more annoyed about losing a valuable day’s HUNTING than being found guilty as charged and fined $100. “The average day would have been worth several thousand dollars to them in…lost production.”

035: At one stage, he recalls, there were about twenty private operators in the TE ANAU area. Many of them are now deceased, he adds, some in HELICOPTER crashes. The WOODFORD brothers of MOSSBURN, TONY PAUL, and the THOMPSON brothers are some of the private operators he can instantly remember.

053: Considers that WALLIS had “some quite serious investment in his operation in FIORDLAND and I suppose a contractual arrangement with the PARKS BOARD of the day” and was therefore justified in raising objections about the other operators invading his claim.

065: Although the authorities called in assistance from the NZ airforce, he says “that was just a joke” because the PARK covers more than three million acres and they would still have had to catch someone on the ground.

071: In addition, he says, the airforce’s BELL 205 (or IROQUIOS) are noisy so everyone knew when they were patrolling the PARK and as soon as they returned the “guys would all go out…do a couple of hours HUNTING…by the time the airforce got themselves organised to head out again, these guys had come back…with a load of DEER…the airforce would pass the guys…but they weren’t doing anything wrong…just flying along with DEER hangin’ underneath”.

087: Tape stopped.

[It has been documented elsewhere that one of the reasons for the big increase in private operators in the PARK, despite their activities being deemed ‘illegal’, was an inflated rise in the price of VENISON. In 1972 the price jumped to $1/lb where previously they were hovering between 30 and 70 cents per lb. The authorities estimated that within months there were about 40 HELICOPTERS operating across the SOUTH ISLAND, mostly in FIORDLAND and the WEST COAST. By late 1973, reports of sabotage created overseas newspaper headlines of FIORDLAND’S “DEER WARS”. The worst incident was at the ALPINE HELICOPTERS hangar at the WAIAU airfield which had been deliberately set alight. Two machines were damaged in the blaze. Another fire at the same place occurred within weeks. At the same time, some ALPINE PILOTS found drums of AVIATION fuel stored strategically in the bush had been SHOT out. It was for this reason that the authorities called in the airforce.]

098: Resumes discussion on this subject saying that the incidence of sabotage had intensified the risks involved in the RECOVERY work in the minds of PILOTS and CREW. “There was certainly friction amongst various operators…particularly against LGP/ALPINE because of their so-called monopoly in FIORDLAND.”

117: Mentions that he used to store drums of AVIATION fuel under cover in the CASWELL SOUND area, brought in by BILL BLACK who took out with him any DEER that the participant and his CREW had SHOT. One drum of fuel, he adds, last about two hours so they always left two full ones for the next time they were back in that area of the PARK.

138: On one particular return trip, he says, they discovered the drum was empty and was “full of bullet holes. It had been shot up from the air”. Similar incidents, he adds, occurred in the HOLLYFORD VALLEY where he kept jerry cans of fuel.

150: Affirms that some of the other PILOTS discovered their machines had been disrupted by offenders putting sand into the oil tanks but because he kept his HELICOPTER at his property in TE ANAU, it was not tampered with in that way.

173: Referring to one of the private operators he mentioned in #035 (above), TONY PAUL, he affirms that as well as owning three HELICOPTERS, PAUL had a fishing vessel as a MEAT storage unit in the WHITEWATER area of GEORGE SOUND. “He had two or three boats…that he could land on over there in the SOUNDS”

180: Goes on to say that PAUL was killed in a HELICOPTER crash in the MIDDLE FIORD of LAKE TE ANAU in the late 1970s.

184: “He had just seen a weakness in the law…doing what he wanted to do which was HUNTING DEER and a lot of money to be made. They couldn’t do a thing about it so he just went ahead and did it. He had quite a large operation.”

[By 1976 a change in licensing policy was introduced in the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK, effectively opening it up to all operators. A block system was introduced, allocated by ballot and rotated on a monthly basis.]

202: By then, he says, there were not the same DEER numbers for all the HELICOPTERS operating in the PARK and yet there was still money to be made for those working in the INDUSTRY.

214: Affirms that locating the DEER had also become more difficult which meant some CREWS taking more risks. “They flew at night, they flew any sort of weather to get them…’cos of the money involved.”

220: These factors, he stresses, combined to produce the increasing number of HELICOPTER accidents among VENISON RECOVERY CREWS. “Just being money hungry…a lot of people owed a lot of money on their gear.”

241: In addition, he suggests that pre-1976, the legislation was inadequate in preventing any un-licensed operators working the PARK. “The only offence you were committing was…discharging a firearm without the landowner’s consent…a relatively minor offence.”

[With the introduction of DEER FARMING, by the mid-1970s the emphasis had changed from VENISON MEAT RECOVERY to what was known as LIVE CAPTURE which as it suggests meant bringing out the animals from the wild to become part of a FARMED herd. TIM WALLIS and his ALPINE team led the drive for this type of FARMING in NEW ZEALAND.]

267: Describes how his CREW physically caught the DEER in what was known as BULLDOGGING. As the HELICOPTER PILOT, he says, ideally he would chase the animal into hilly, scrubby country, and his SHOOTER (JEFF CARTER) standing on the SKID (of the HELICOPTER) would jump up to three metres onto the back of the running DEER, wrestle it to the ground and tie its hooves together.

276: Says it was often easier for the SHOOTER if the HELICOPTER hovered above because the noise and disturbance caused by the machine disoriented the animal so it relented more quickly. “But if you went away and left him there it was a sort of one-on-one thing.”

287: Affirms that this method was used before the use of TRANQUILLIZER DARTS (first tried by fellow LGP/ALPINE staff, BILL BLACK and JIM KANE in the early 1970s) became commonplace.

296: Good judgement was called for by both PILOT and SHOOTER, he says, such as pushing the animal into hilly country, using the terrain and vegetation to slow it down. “We wouldn’t do it out on open flat tussock because the thing would be going flat out and you could never stop it.”

305: By this method, he says, they caught between five and fifteen animals in a day’s work. To get the animals out, he continues, straps were used to tie them up. However, they could not be left tied for long, he says, because their stomachs would bloat leading to death, so it was important to catch two or three and bring them out in one go.

315: Sometimes the animals were put into CAPTURE bags and loaded into the back of the HELICOPTER behind the PILOT and CREW.

322: Replies that he used the TRANQUILLIZER DART method for about a year but it was a “messy” procedure because of having to concoct different doses of the drug depending on the size of the animal. The drug was administered by DART GUN from the HELICOPTER and took about fifteen minutes to take effect on the animal.

329: Goes on to say that the next method used, the NET GUN, was a much better alternative as it was quicker and safer for the animal. First devised by a HAWKES BAY PILOT and farmer, the idea of using a NET to capture DEER was tried in the mid-1960s. But it was a couple of HUNTERS from the WEST COAST who came up with the ‘GOTCHA GUN’ in 1978 at about the same time as the THOMPSON brothers from TE ANAU designed a triangular NET which with weights was fired from a RIFLE. As modifications evolved, soon there were hand-held NET GUNS as well as SKID-mounted varieties.

336: The most popular version, he says, was a four-barrelled arrangement with a 10ft x 10ft NET made from braided cord with a mesh size “big enough to put a football through”. Explains that when the NET was fired from the modified GUN, it (hopefully) went over the DEER’S head and neck so that as it ran its legs and feet became entangled in the rest of the NETTING immobilising the animal.

344: The SHOOTER, he says, still had to get out of the HELICOPTER and wrestle with the animal in the NET to tie it up and onto the hook under the machine. “Sometimes you’d finish up with two in a NET and that’d become very confusing…and quite hard work.”

356: Affirms that it was a case of trial and error for the designers of the NET GUNS and he commends NELSON and BILL THOMPSON for the work and skill they devoted to producing their versions.

361: Because the GUN was firing out four weights along with the mesh NETTING, he says the amount of charge in the shell was crucial. The THOMPSON brothers, he adds, spent a lot of time on the research to perfect “a real good GUN”. Person recorded: Dick Deaker

373: While he was still working for ALPINE HELICOPTERS, he says WALLIS paid about $200 per DEER so that was divvied up with his CREW. But when he set up on his own doing VENISON/DEER RECOVERY in 1980/81, he was getting between $1500 and $2700 per DEER.

380: Although it was a good price, he says there were large outlays due to the cost of parts for the HELICOPTER – a HUGHES 500 model. He gives an example of this following an engine failure in 1980 which cost about $100,000 to fix. “So although we made good money, it was still high cost and a risky game.”

396: After they were successfully captured, the LIVE DEER were brought out to the WAIAU airfield while he was still working for ALPINE HELICOPTERS. Later, he brought them out direct to the buyer who paid by cheque on delivery. The farmer, he says, arranged his own transport for the DEER once they were brought out of the wild.

411: Re-iterates that he left ALPINE HELICOPTERS in 1980, saying that he wanted to set up his own operation so he arranged financing to buy the HUGHES 500 which cost $120,000. “There was a lot of money to be made and the only way you could make money was you had to buy the gear to do it.”

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Tape 2 Side B starts

006: Opens at the tail end of an off-tape comment about how he joined up with another former ALPINE PILOT, who had also set up on his own – RICHARD HAYES. He says in 1982 they bought an air transport licence from a WINTON-based company called CENTRAL WESTERN AIR. ) It was only licensed, he says, for FIXED WING AIRCRAFT.

016: In order to change the licence to include HELICOPTERS, he says, they went through a prolonged process because of the much heavier restrictions imposed then than now.

019: Explains that their reason for taking on this venture was to offer an alternative HELICOPTER FLIGHT service into FIORDLAND especially as increasing numbers of people wanted access to the PARK for recreational purposes.

029: However, he insists that DEER RECOVERY was still their principal business…the air transport side of it covered only about 10% of the total annual income.

051: Most of the LIVE DEER they brought out, he says, were still fetching up to $3000 apiece and being bought by SOUTHLAND farmers. And while there was a lot of competition from rival operators “you didn’t have to catch a lot to do well”.

080: But he remembers how “basically overnight” the price fell to below $800. This occurred in 1986 following changes in government economic policy which saw the lifting of rural subsidies and created a knock-on effect on the VENISON/DEER FARMING INDUSTRIES. He later added that the standard purchase price of farm stock no longer benefited from a 100% tax write-off.

099: Affirms that he ran “a few hundred DEER” for a while but it was not a job for him since he preferred HUNTING the animals rather than farming them. However, as he waited for buyers there had to be facilities for the animals so farming them became part of the whole operation.

122: The 50-acre section of land he bought (costing $70,000) to run the DEER was on the outskirts of the town alongside the UPUKERORA RIVER and had been one of the LANDS & SURVEY FARM DEVELOPMENT BLOCKS.

131: States that his BROTHER (GRAHAM) recently bought and lives on the property.

149: Along with his BROTHER, SYD, he owns and operates a HUGHES 500 D model in the NELSON district. He adds that he bought WALLIS’ old HUGHES 500 D (registration HOT) which he recently rebuilt.

156: Says that last year he and JEFF CARTER used it in FIORDLAND on VENISON RECOVERY when they SHOT and brought out about 800 DEER.

163: Argues that there is still a strong market for WILD VENISON but the widespread use of 1080 poison in NEW ZEALAND has been the stumbling block. He adds that he is one of a group of operators in FIORDLAND that has a procedure which can electronically prove where the DEER were SHOT: areas that have not been affected by 1080 poison. 1080 poison is the preferred method used by the authorities for eradicating non-native vermin, some of which carry the tuberculosis bacterial disease.

187: Says the main markets for the WILD VENISON are still the EUROPEAN countries of GERMANY and SWITZERLAND.

192: Reflects that due to his now being financially secure he has the advantage of still doing something he enjoys without having to worry about whether it’s economically worthwhile. In the past year, he adds, he has returned to many of the places he worked during the 1960s – LAKE HAUROKO, LAKE POTERITERI, around DUSKY SOUND and CHALKY INLET.

208: Considers that his job is “only as dangerous as you make it” adding that he spends a lot of money maintaining his HELICOPTERS and that he doesn’t work in poor weather conditions.

216: Referring to the high accident rate during the peak years of the RECOVERY INDUSTRY, he says all of those crashes were avoidable. He equates them to the present day phenomenon of a high fatal accident rate among “boy racers”.

222: “If you want to make thrills and spills out of it, a HELICOPTER will kill you real quick. But you gotta know when to…back off.”

233: He also describes a HELICOPTER as just another mode of transport “not unlike a pushbike…but it’s just more complicated and more versatile...every day you hop in it, you’ve gotta treat it with respect” and do all the necessary checks before lifting off.

252: Talks about living in TE ANAU between the 1960s and 1980s and recalls his social life as being “reasonably hectic”. He later added that it was a “high testosterone” town in those days with most of the male workforce being involved in HUNTING or FISHING.

258: “We were younger…you got these HELICOPTERS that cruise at 140mph…lots of horsepower, the world’s your oyster out there, you’ve got the whole of FIORDLAND for yourself…it was a lot of fun.”

266: Admits that in such circumstances “your family suffered” because most of an operator’s energy was centred on business. However, he considers that he has a good relationship with each of his three CHILDREN today, despite his job having come first.

287: “If I had my life again…I would love to do just what I’ve done. The only tragic part about it is losing all the friends (in fatal crashes)…and it never needed to be like that.”

292: Interview ends.

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