H0499 INTERVIEW WITH DONALD BROWN

DATE: 26 NOVEMBER 2008

INTERVIEWER: PAM SMITH

[NOTE: THIS IS A TRANSCRIPT NOT AN ABSTRACT WITH TIMINGS]

TELL ME ABOUT YOUR EARLY LIFE. TELL ME ABOUT YOUR FATHER?

My father came from KAPUKA SOUTH when he was a teenager about fifteen or sixteen years of age. He worked at BIRCH'S sawmill near the coast. He worked as a slabby boy or something along those lines.

WHAT YEARS?

We talking about early 1920s. How he started here? One of his sisters was married to a local farmer and he came over to stay with her. He got the job. He moved on through the ranks and at that stage there were a lot of mills in TUATAPERE. He sort of moved up the ranks. Where we are at PAPATOTARA ROAD was where he met his wife. They were YOUNGS and they were one of the original families. My mother's mother was an ERSKINE and one of the original ones that came across the WAIAU in the first place in the late 1800s and my grandmother was the first female born on the West side of the Waiau. So a lot of family history here on my mother's side. My father came from KAPUKA SOUTH. They lived around that area and his family came from ENGLAND and IRELAND. Can't tell the actual date they married, in the 1930s. They lived in CLIFDEN on the outskirts of TUATAPERE. There were three boys born in the house. We lived there a few years, moved from there in 1954 and came back to the original mother's home in PAPATOTARA ROAD. We stayed here all our schooldays and I left home to do an OE. I attended TUATAPERE PRIMARY SCHOOL until the age of twelve thirteen and I went to SOUTHLAND TECHNICAL COLLEGE in INVERCARGILL and boarded in INVERCARGILL for those three years. I returned to TUATAPERE and got a job as an apprentice carpenter and I worked at that six and a half years before leaving TUATAPERE and went to AUSTRALIA to do the OE and other experiences. I started off picking sultana grapes and carried on in the building trade for thirteen months and returned to TUATAPERE and carried on helping out on the farm and on the building side of things. I stayed on for twelve months and went back to AUSTRALIA in the building trade. In the meantime when I had been in AUSTRALIA I met up with my wife KERRI and we married in 1973 and returned to the home farm and been here ever since for thirty six years.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP IN THE 1950S AND TEENAGER IN THE 1960S?

Growing up as a child was a lot different than the children today. Most of the time we had to walk. If we went up the street we walked. If we were lucky enough to have a push bike they were all one size and had a bar. We had to ride the bike illegally with the leg under the bar. We did have a car but only to get groceries and for necessities. Things were pretty tough on the farm. My father was a mill manager when he retired from the mills and they started off milking cows on the home farm for town supply and dairy factory for twelve months of the year. Not like today where you have four or five hundred cows. They had fifty during the summer and ten during the winter. We also had a certain amount of sheep.

SHOPS WISE IN TUATAPERE?

A fair line up of shops in my day. I can't remember a bakery but there was a bakery before my time. There were about four garages that I can remember, picture theatre and a numerous amount of halls in the area. Six or seven schools in the area. There were small communities. Now days TUATAPERE is the main community. Things have changed. When you left school the jobs most of the locals, if they were brainy enough and had enough support, they went to university, otherwise they worked at the forestry or the mills. As I said before there were numerous mills and the forestry was a big employer back in the 1950s and 1960s. Jobs were a long way easier to get. Myself, I wanted to do a building trade. I did like farming but I wanted to have a trade under my belt if I did go farming. I walked off the street as I had seen the builders building in TUATAPERE doing some renovations. I walked in and asked if I could have a job as an apprentice carpenter and they said yes you can start after CHRISTMAS, and that was in OCTOBER. It is a long way different to what the children of today have to go through in the rural areas. You basically have to know someone reasonably well or else be keen enough to do tractor work with contractors or go away from TUATAPERE to get work.

There originally was a train in TUATAPERE when I was young. That was the main transport for businesses in TUATAPERE. The sawmills especially, they loaded the carriages with timber and they would be carted away to different places in NEWZEALAND.

DO YOU REMEMBER IF IT WAS A PASSENGER TRAIN?

I remember travelling on the train in 1954 with my parents to see the QUEEN in INVERCARGILL. So that was a big event. I think on odd occasions we travelled on the train to RIVERTON sports around CHRISTMAS, NEW YEAR but apart from that yes there was a place in the guards van for passengers if they wanted to travel by train. It used to go every day as far as I can gather. It used to go to ORAWIA to the cement works to pick up cement to take it away from there.

CAN YOU REMEMBER WHEN IT STOPPED?

Not the actual date. In the late sixties early seventies. About 1975.

WHAT ABOUT THE SPORTS AND SOCIAL ACTIVITIES?

There was always rugby, one of the main sporting activities in TUATAPERE.

Cricket, tennis, golf, bowls, that was the basic activities.

HAVE THEY STAYED ON?

All those facilities are still there plus a few more. Probably the only one that is not there is cricket but there is a small group of teenagers playing indoor cricket. But now you have squash, badminton but it has faded a little through lack of people and a bit of mountain biking.

WHAT ABOUT THE DOMAIN?

The DOMAIN is basically our main sporting venue. For rugby school age right through the age groups and for TUATAPERE SPORTS on NEW YEARS DAY. This year is the ninety ninth year of the TUATAPERE sports. The centenary is next year. A few years were missed out in the war years. The A&P SHOW is another annual event that brings in the rural people to the domain. The domain is surrounded by bush and is a great picnic area. A great picnic atmosphere for the NEW YEARS DAY SPORTS and SHOW DAY is the same. A gathering of the families. Number wise things have gone back over the years. The people are changing. The locals are not attending like they used to. When I was a small child you went to the TUATAPERE SPORTS and the whole family went. You took your picnic lunch and in it were made up salads and you put your rug down and enjoyed it. Now days it’s not the same as a sit down family thing. Things are a lot faster.

WHEN YOU MARRIED AND YOUR OWN FAMILY GROWING UP WERE THERE THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHOPS?

Probably wasn't until the late seventies early eighties when the forestry stopped that the shops started disappearing. So when our children were growing up and they went through their schooling, they were pretty well catered for. In those days I feel if they wanted to do activities they were there if they were prepared to do them. They travelled more and in the early days you had your sports meetings and that was it. You didn't go much further and now days they travel to INVERCARGILL to advance their sporting opportunities.

DID YOUR CHILDREN GO TO THE LOCAL SCHOOL OR DID THEY GO TO TOWN LIKE YOU DID?

No, they all attended the local primary school. I didn't mention before but when I went to school the primary and secondary school was the one school but when my children were arriving the new primary school opened and the combined one was turned into the high school. The three of them attended the primary school and they all went on to the TUATAPERE COLLEGE. One went on to POLYTECH in INVERCARGILL to do a course on his artistry.

THE NEW SCHOOL WAS THE PRIMARY SCHOOL AND THE OLD SCHOOL WAS THE TUATAPERE COLLEGE. IS THAT STILL THE WAY IT IS NOW?

Now it’s all back into one. The primary and the college. It’s called WAIAU COMMUNITY COLLEGE. What's happened over the years is that all the small surrounding schools have closed down. Numbers have dropped. People have moved on and so you have all the small rural schools all combined into the TUATAPERE SCHOOL. How long they can survive before they change and go to another Intermediate school I suppose it all depends on numbers now days. I don't know the exact numbers but I think they are not too bad. The area has changed with a number of younger families coming into the area with the dairy side of things and some of the school rolls have increased. It’s quite good to see that actually.

HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE COMMUNITY?

As far as community goes I've been a community person most of my life. I sort of liked to help out in the community as much as I could. I started off being a scout leader when I was eighteen having been through scouts myself so I started there and later as the children arrived I coached school rugby and my wife did the basketball with the girls. Both of us have been involved in the community from an early age and have joined up with things in the community as we get older. We help out where we can. Everything gets faster but you will always find that there is a hard core group who are into everything. I don't think it will ever change. Even in the urban areas even though I've never lived in a town.

WHAT INFLUENCES IN YOUR EARLY LIFE IMPACT ON WHO YOU ARE TODAY? DID YOUR PARENTS INFLUENCE YOUR COMMUNITY SPIRIT?

Yes because both my father and my mother very active in the community.

ANYTHING ELSE?

To be able to do things without having to be paid for it. If you don't get the volunteers in the small rural areas you won't exist. We survive on our own.

INTERESTING COMMENT?

We still rely on outside help. We can't to do it all on our own. But we all pitch in where we can.

WHAT'S IT LIKE BEING A MAN LIVING IN TUATAPERE?

I suppose it’s just like a woman. (Laughter).

WHAT ARE YOUR INTERESTS?

As a man living in TUATAPERE if you're outdoorsy it’s ideal. You've got everything at your backdoor step; FISHING, HUNTING, TRAMPING, BOATING, you name it it’s basically all there. If your family is living at TUATAPERE all those things are combined together if you wanted to. It is a man's world as far as out doorsy stuff goes. There is so much to do out here to save you getting bored or getting into trouble as a teenager. You can go HUNTING, FISHING, WALKING, it’s all there right at your back door step.

WHAT SORT OF CULTURE EXISTS IN TUATAPERE?

Probably an outdoorsy culture in the area. It does change as time goes on and there seems to be... What I've found over the years is that a lot of the people who move on, the houses are bought up and a lot of people are renting and they don't stay long. In the early days people bought a house and they stayed. These days it is a shifting community. There is a definite culture among the older.

WHAT MAJOR DRAMAS?

The FLOOD in 1984 was quite a changing effect to TUATAPERE. Never thought it would ever happen. I couldn't believe how much water actually came and where it went. I was actually caught out myself. I was caught out down at the beach. The bridge was washed away and I couldn't get out. When I actually got down to TUATAPERE I couldn't believe what I saw. The HALF MILE ROAD was under water. The water disappeared very quickly when the water went down but it was just unreal just how much water came down the WAIAU in just a short time. A lot of the farms were inundated as well, not just the town. All our creeks around the farm were flooded and we had sheep trapped and lost stock. It was quite devastating.

WAS IT PURELY JUST THE VOLUME OF RAIN OR SOMETHING ELSE?

No just the local rain. Heavy rain in the local catchment something like five inches in twelve hours and also in the mountains there was a big drop. It contributed all at the same time and then converged on the town and there was no room for the water to go so it spread out.

HOW DID THE PEOPLE COPE WITH THAT?

Some were upset because they lost everything. I helped clean up. Most people were very good considering what they had gone through. A lot never ever realised they would be flooded out. They couldn't believe it when they were told to shift how fast the water moved in. A quarter of an hour from dry road to two feet to four feet deep to five feet whatever. They had to get out by boat. It just happened so quickly and a lot were very upset as far as losing everything. They thought we can save this and save that but when you really got down to tin tacks you had to realise that it was all septic tanks and that was what was running through the houses. Yes it was very devastating,

PHOTO ALBUMS ETC?

Yes a lot of stuff. Electrical appliances suffered the most. Most of the houses I saw most of the albums would have been saved but some did lose everything.

DID EVERYONE JOIN TOGETHER?

Everyone evacuated and catered for until they could get back. No loss of life. As far as I can gather a lot of people got a lot out of it. Farmers were n compensated for fences but the number of volunteers that worked long after the flood cleaning the fences was unreal. It was ongoing. The community just boxed together and went from farm to farm helping the farmers out as they didn't have any fences left. The community effort that went into that was amazing. That's when you find in rural areas in crisis they come out of the woodwork.

WHAT ARE THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT LIVING IN TUATAPERE?

If you are brought up in an area your roots are here. I like the area as everything I'm interested in is here. If I had to uproot and go somewhere else I'd have to find those interests as it just part of your life.

THERE HAS BEEN CHANGES OVER THE YEARS. THE FORESTRY. WHY DID THAT HAPPEN?

This is my view on it. It’s quite a debatable question. I understand the GOVERNMENT was cutting down a lot of the native trees and everything was getting knocked over as they wanted to save the native vegetation. This is my view on this, but at that stage it shut down, they'd replanted a lot of the indigenous and exotic pines and that was all sold to RAYNIERS an off shore interest. That's when these forestry places ceased. That's my understanding. I think that that's why the government sold up all the state forests to stop the cutting of the native. All the mills that were here were starting to close down as well because there wasn't the native for them to go into the blocks.

WHAT ARE THE MILLS?

ALAN JOHNSTON finished about a month ago.

TUATAPERE NOW FROM ALL THOSE SHOPS IT IS SORT OF A TOURISTY ARTY CRAFTY SORT OF PLACE? IS THAT RIGHT?

It is. That what's happened to TUATAPERE. With the changing of TUATAPERE a PROMOTION GROUP started up, put their heads together to save TUATAPERE from turning into a ghost town. Quite a number of things came out of it. A few years ago a MULTISPORT VENTURE was held from LAKE HAUROKO, WAIRAHIRI RIVER and back to TUATAPERE. That was all done at the same time as the idea of the HUMP TRACK. The idea went from there. Then we went through all the paper and documentation to see if it feasible and whether the DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION would be interested in allowing a track through their land. From there it sort of started off once we had all the preliminary work done. A public meeting was called in 1995 and thirteen trustees elected at a public meeting and a trust was formed in 1996. From there that TRUST took over the organising of the new track. They went through the rigmarole of getting resource consents raising funds and getting prices. This was a bit mind boggling for the small community. We thought we could build this track for 1.5-1.7 million originally. Once we started doing some pricing two scenarios were thrown at us. 4.5 million and 2.5 million! So it was thrown back to the public asking, do we go ahead. The community said yes, we think it is a big attraction to the area and a few more people to the area will help things. THE TRUST went back and started getting all the CONSULTANTS sorted out and fundraising and money and donations. Volunteers started coming forward and the time that the track was finished in 2001 there were over thirty thousand voluntary hours went into the project. All the board walk was made by hand and a lot of help to be put in place by contractors. There was a lot of work in the background that people didn't know about when it came to finding consents to go through land and the arguments. It cost THE TRUST a quarter of a million to three hundred thousand dollars just to get the legal side of it whereas if it had happened fifteen to twenty years before that, it could have happened with a few slashers and a few markers. Things have changed along those lines. Unfortunately where we were at the time of building this new track, was at the time of the CAVE CREEK tragedy. We found that although the DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION was very helpful a lot of the structures went ridiculous and doubled our costs in production. Today they have leaned off a little bit and a bit more compatible and more helpful. The original paper work they put through for the concession, after ARROW CONSULTANTS looked at it, they said it is not workable. It's impossible! They made it that hard for private enterprise. We were the first private enterprise to build a project on DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION land. The restrictions they put on it were that hard we couldn't do it. There were a lot of changes made by DOC over the construction time to make it work.

The actual track was started after we got all consents through in late 2000 and the first building in PORT CRAIG was early 2001. Those on the HUMP RIDGE itself was in April and it wasn't a good time to be in the alpine area as they weren't there very long and they were snowed out- They struck one of the wettest and coldest Winters to do the construction. They did actually basically finish for the opening on the 3rd of November with voluntary help. Locals were going up there putting boardwalk in, nailing netting on, stapling netting on. There were a few things not finished by the opening but they are now. It turned out to be the wettest days thunderstorms, hail and the PRIME MINISTER HELEN CLARK opened it. The next day was shorts weather. It’s just what happens in the area and it happens in other places. Just changing of the weather so quick. You get used to it. The air is fresh here, no smog.

SO HOW IS THE TRACK NOW?

Originally THE TRUST operated the track for the first two years. The first year was the bridesmaid year. Over three thousand people, and the track surface blew to pieces and we extended our boardwalk another two kilometres to cope with the mud. Unfortunately that gave the track a bad name. Everybody that went through got bogged under. They said, "oh no, it is too muddy, too this, too that," and we've had a hard job getting that back. We've spent thousands of dollars putting in extra boardwalks and extra track surfaces and now we've got the track settled down there are a few problems still there and we are trying to raise funds to make the track that much easier to walk on. The track numbers have dropped. After the first two years we could see that we weren't going to be able to carry on operating as a TRUST as we didn't have the expertise to do it. We got an operator in and got a lease agreement with THE TRUST. THE TRUST got a certain percentage of the trampers that went over the track and that was our income. That was a five year contract. This year he was about to sign up for another ten years and for some reason or other he turned round and said that he wasn't going to do it. He couldn't do it financially because there were risks and he had spent that much financially. THE TRUST has actually taken it over and formed a CHARITABLE COMPANY to run it and numbers wise we were back up to two and half last year, they were down to nineteen hundred. To make it feasible it has to have over two thousand plus. We would like to get it up to three thousand this year which doesn't look good due to the world economy. We're not too sure what is going to happen. We are sort of playing it by ear. We're in the process of taking back over from the operator. We have employed local people. We're very lucky that those that were working the track over the last couple of years have come back to us. We have picked the better ones from them and it is sort of like one big happy family. We have to get the numbers though. We would hate to lose it.

WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TOURIST THINGS IN TUATAPERE THE SCENIC ROUTE?

JOHN FRASER was probably the instigator of the SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE. It was to try and get people through the SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE. When people came to INVERCARGILL they thought that was the end of it. When they travelled through to the LAKES DISTRICT they went through WINTON to TE ANAU and QUEENSTOWN and TUATAPERE was missed out. By turning it into the SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE and trying to say what you can see on that route we show people what they have been missing. We notice now that camper vans that travel the route, they go to the LAKES DISTRICT and they travel through TUATAPERE. They all think that the PERCY BURN VIADUCTS, that is one of the Tracks features, is just at the end of the road. They don't realise that it is seven to eight hours walk. The tourists are coming through the area. We did a count on the people that are coming to the Information centre which is also the track office. We found that it was about three and half thousand people. There is no counter on the door anymore but when they did do a survey that was what they found. There is still quite a big number and I would say actually higher today. Last year there were a lot of people. This year I don't know, but people still call in to find out what is about and what to do. There is an information centre at RIVERTON that has helped too. OREPUKI and COLAC BAY have smartened themselves up a bit. It is changing as people are wanting a sea view. It is quite unusual to see where people are setting up house. Great views but you are looking straight at the ANTARCTIC!

IS THE LIBRARY IN USE?

Yes the LIBRARY is the TUATAPERE MEMORIAL. That's been extended. There was an alteration a few years ago. It used to be dark and dingy now it is quite bright inside and it gets well used. KERRI my wife is the HEAD LIBRARIAN at the LIBRARY and it’s quite a nice little attraction to the area.

TELL ME ABOUT LOCAL PROVISIONS? THE DOCTORS?

DOCTOR ELDER, he really spoilt TUATAPERE compared to most doctors nowadays. We are pretty well catered for. We have changing doctors whereas DOCTOR ELDER stayed right throughout the years. We do get the odd one that will do house calls whereas DOCTOR ELDER would call. It might be ten o'clock at night or three o'clock in the morning and he would go and see his patients and sometimes you didn't even know he had been there. We have been very lucky in that area. Some NEW ZEALAND DOCTORS but mainly BRITISH DOCTORS. They stay four to five years and the one we have at the moment is very dedicated to the area although he does live in INVERCARGILL and travels out. DOCTOR SUE PEARCE is married to a local so she lives here. NURSES, we have three local PRACTITIONER NURSES and three office staff. We have the MATERNITY HOME and THE MEDICAL CENTRE was part of the MATERNITY HOME. When the GOVERNMENT closed down THE MATERNITY HOME the locals formed a TRUST to run THE MATERNITY HOME and MEDICAL CENTRE. All under one body. We fairly well catered. We have mid wives from AMERICA. It is quite an expensive business this maternity. To get the numbers, we are having an explosion in births at the moment. Hopefully we can keep THE MATERNITY open. If we lose THE MATERNITY we lose THE MEDICAL CENTRE. It would be bad for the area as the area is turning more elderly and a lot of retired people coming into the area. If they had to travel it would be bad.

YOU MENTIONED THE ELDERLY?

There is quite a lot of semi-retired and retired people coming here because it is a quiet little town. We have a ST JOHNS AMBULANCE SERVICE. It is all voluntary. The LIONS CLUB started it up thirty six years ago with a driver only ambulance. As time went on they bought a bigger vehicle manned by two trained by DOCTOR ELDER. Then in 1993 ST JOHNS took over the training and supplied the ambulance and some of the material that was needed and it is now run under the ST JOHNS umbrella but still run by volunteers. We have somewhere in the vicinity of about sixteen and seventeen volunteers on a weekly roster doing twenty four seven service open. As time has progressed the training needs by ST JOHNS have increased and as life changes volunteers are harder to get. We not sure if it’s the criteria or that both family members working nowadays. Most VOLUNTEERS are farmers or farmer’s wives with one or two town people involved. At the moment we are down to twelve volunteers. We get support from the DISTRICT SUPPORT AMBULANCE, a paid person that comes out once a week. THE LIONS CLUB supplied us with a new AMBULANCE three years ago as we always got the old dungers from ST JOHNS that were on their last legs. We are one and a half hours from the nearest hospital and they would break down. Now we have a new AMBULANCE and another new one due this month. It is a replacement for the one we got three years ago. We are looked after by THE LIONS as far as the AMBULANCE is concerned. They raise their funds from the slinky skins and selling them. Slinky skins are from the dead lambs. That is the main funds and a hay drive now and again. That is where the money comes from to run the FREE AMBULANCE for TUATAPERE.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT OR LOCAL COUNCIL HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO MORE OR LESS FOR THE AREA?

I think that we would like to have them involved because otherwise little towns will disappear. Local council is very good for the local area. It sees that things get done for the small rural areas. I think that their hands are probably tied as to how much they can do finance wise.