HAROLD FRANCIS ASHWELL

Interviewer: Gail Jefferies

Abstracter: Judith Christie

First Interview: 4 December 2001

TRACK 1

00:00 HAROLD ASHWELL of 50 Onslow Street, Bluff, born 1916 at Bluff. Father’s name GEORGE HENRY ASHWELL, born 1884, died 1980, occupation SLAUGHTERMAN, WHARFIE AND LABOURER. Mother’s name SARAH OLIVE NEE MCDONALD 1884 – 1978, occupation housewife. Sister VERA SMITH born 1912, Brother REG ASHWELL born 1914.

01.10 Self finished PRIMARY SCHOOL education, employed at a POST OFFICE, HARBOUR BOARD, FREEZING WORKS, FISHERMAN, ARMY AND TOURISM OPERATOR.

01.30 Self gives MIHI and WHAKAPAPA

02.15 MUTTONBIRDER – first went to the islands in 1930. Until then, not allowed to go because of finishing education at BLUFF PRIMARY SCHOOL – no secondary education. Went to the islands with grandparents TOM AND ANNIE ASHWELL on oyster boat called the WETERE – largest oyster boat on record. Wetere burnt during the off season on voyage from Wanganui to Nelson. Describes

04.10 PREPARATION FOR MUTTONBIRDING took months – preparing POUHA (kelp bag) and KETE (flax baskets). Also gathered TOTARA BARK to use as protection after birds placed in the kelp. Describes.

06.20 First went to the islands at age 13. Boat carried the people to several islands, along with other boats. Went to POHUATAEREA (aka BIG ISLAND, WOMAN’S ISLAND, STAG ISLAND). Frist experience of the sea, very rough crossing. After leaving Bluff, called in to CODFISH ISLAND after dark. Saw a huge fire on the beach – was told it was the fire of ‘THE AMBERGRIS KING’.

09.00 Arrived at the island the following morning, when women in the party held a moving, customary TANGI to remember departed members of their families. Describes.

11.05 GRANDFATHER DIED on the Islands that year – TANGI held for him. Describes.

12.00 RULES FOR THE MUTTONBIRD ISLANDS came into force 1912 – before that tangata whenua would access islands whenever they wanted. In 1912 LANDS AND SURVEY DEPARTMENT regulated access and people then had to request a permit to enter CROWN OWNED ISLANDS, but not for BENEFICIARY ISLANDS. Describes

14.00 Spent from eight to twelve weeks on the islands, dependent on weather. Had to be off the islands by 30 MAY. Landing and departing islands dependent on weather.

16.00 Right to go to the islands is granted only to MAORI when RAKIURA was sold to the Crown. This superseded membership of NGAI TAHU IWI. Right of occupation passed on to future generations. Rakiura woman married to Pakeha can pass right on to children, but Pakeha husband has no rights, though may accompany her to the islands, and vice versa. Describes

18.45 GOT TO SHORE by lowering a dinghy off the large boat – unnerving experience landing on rocks and jumping ashore. KELLICK (anchor) used by very experienced sailors – a heavy weight dropped overboard. Describes

22.45 Today, landing much different – HELICOPTERS often used to land in the middle of the islands. Romance has been lost with modern conveniences. Describes. NEW METHODS started 1945-1950.

25.00 HEALTH DEPARTMENT did not like the idea of KELP BAGS, which were blown up by mouth. TINS introduced instead to store the birds, but initially rusted. Had to be lacquered inside. Describes process. TEN GALLON BARRELS then used, made of white pine. Held around 100 muttonbirds. Finally settled on PLASTIC BUCKETS, which work well, and hold around 30 birds.

29.45 Description of HOUSES on the islands – more like shelters to live in. No individual rooms, contained bunks and fireplace, boxes for table, apple boxes for chairs. End of Track One

TRACK TWO

00.0 DWELLINGS on islands very basic. Describes. Some dwellings used wells – unsatisfactory Describes

02.00 Post war in 1945, RETURNING SERVICEMEN demanded better standards.

02.15 Describes WORKHOUSES (WHARE RAU) where birds were processed.

03.30 Better buildings started to appear post 1945. The boat WAIRUA would carry BUILDING MATERIALS AND FURNITURE to the islands. COAL RANGES AND GAS RANGES installed, replacing open fires.

05.10 ELECTRICITY came into use, using GENERATORS, lighting before was KEROSENE LAMPS. FRIDGES AND FREEZERS installed.

05.45 Originally islanders lived off the islands – BIRDS, FISH, POTATOES GROWN ON ISLAND. BREAD made every night in the camp ovens. Progression to fridges and freezers changed diet.

08.10 Self still FISHES when on the islands. Once plentiful, but SEA FOOD HARDER TO FIND after being overfished. Describes eating of SHORT KELP, which was dried.

09.55 Self suspects crayfishermen were responsible for LOSS OF SEAFOOD availability. Describes the fishing. Including smoking of fish.

12.15 ANZAC DAY was held sacred on the islands, no work on those days. People would go fishing on those days. SUNDAYS also set aside as a sacred day. 13.45 Approximately 40 PEOPLE on the island on the old days, but now only SIX. Mention family names - SPENCERS, KITSONS, WHITELOCKS, LEES, CLARKS. All of these families gone and have not been replaced. Just ASHWELL FAMILY left – self’s daughter and her children and grandchildren, who go every year.

15.15 HOWELL(?) ISLAND used by the family 50 acres in area, situated three miles from the south west coast of Stewart Island. Approximately 50 Titi Islands in total. 250 people go to the islands every year. 18 of the islands are called BENEFICIAL ISLANDS, set aside during the sale of Stewart Island for nominated people. All other islands are CROWN ISLANDS.

17.00 Nominated people were regarded as the OWNERS of those 18 islands. To obtain entry on to the islands, you have to WHAKAPAPA back to the original owners in 1864. Most have English names.

19.00 MAORI LANGUAGE AND CUSTOMARY NAMES for working on the islands have been lost. In the old times, some English spoken, but mostly Maori language. SOUTHERN MAORI AMONGTHE FIRST TO LEARN ENGLISH because of interaction with the SEALERS 1800 – 1820. 20.45 MAORI JOINED SEALING BOATS, and often travelled to AUSTRALIA. Signing of TREATY OF WAITANGI conducted in English here – Maori language very different to North Island Maori, and interpreter no use.

22.30 LOT OF HISTORY HAS BEEN LOST, self blames MAORI HISTORIANS. Attempts have been made, but self believes they don’t match up. Opportunities for writing history, but everything was word of mouth from KAUMATUA. ENGLISH EXPLORERS have visited Southland from 1850s, but were not historians – instead they observed mountains and rivers and named them.

24.40 All of self’s HISTORY KNOWLEDGE comes from being with older men, listening to their stories. Self learned Maori from GRANDMOTHER when on the Titi Islands.

26.00 Describes PROCESS OF ARRIVING ON THE ISLAND and setting up. There for a fortnight before the muttonbirding started, GATHERING WOOD for the season. Describes. TRACKS CUT – tracks kept to as people did not walk on the MANU (BIRDING GROUNDS) in case the site was damaged.

End of Track Two TRACK THREE

00.00 When self first went to the islands, MEETING would be called. Island split into SEVEN MANU – seven for the men, seven for the women. Islands worked by men lining in a row to check the holes the birds were in. Started at 8.00 am, finishing at 12.00 noon. Describes

02.45 Birds then WATER CLEANED and PLUCKED. When fewer people in latter years, supervisor would hold a meeting and select MANU, which were worked individually. Birds caught by feeling with the hand into the hole (NINAU). Hooks sometimes used. Birds killed immediately.

5.30 Describes the traditional knowledge about life cycle of bird. EGGS LAID on 25 November, hatching on 25 DECEMBER. On SNARES ISLANDS, birds so prolific that eggs were laid above ground. Muttonbird MIGRATORY – after hatching, KIAKI (adult birds) feed the young birds, flying hundreds of miles to get food, for a couple of months. Around April, adult birds leave the island, chicks remaining. Chicks spend the next three weeks or a month living off their body fat and exercising outside. Unable to take off from flat surface – need to LAUNCH FROM A HEIGHT. Describes

11.10 TITI MIGRATE around the PACIFIC, past AUSTRALIAN COAST, NEW GUINEA, JAPAN, KAMCHATKA PENINSULA, ALEUTIAN ISLANDS across the TOP OF THE PACIFIC OCEAN and come down at sea opposite CALIFORNIA, where they congregate in massive flocks. From there they return to the Muttonbird Islands, arriving the end of OCTOBER.

13.00 EGGS LAID in burrows, which birds make themselves, some very deep. Describes

14.30 ADULT BIRDS quite LIGHTWEIGHT, but VICIOUS with both beaks and feet. Birds fight amongst themselves. Adult bird known as KAIKI, chicks called TITI. At 5.00 am, birds leave the islands, singing to each other. Leave and return to the island in the dark.

18.40 Sea hens (SKUA) prey on muttonbirds. Skua also sometimes attack people. 19.30 Once bird is pulled out of the holes, KILLED BY CRUSHING THE HEAD. Needs to be bled, or flesh around neck will contain congealed blood, staining it. Some people kill by twisting the neck. When torching, birds can BE KILLED BY BITING THE HEADS.

21.45 BIRDS NO LONGER PLENTIFUL, self does not know why. When first there, place alive with birds during torching time. Birds die instantly when heads bitten – self believes this is the most effective and humane way. If birds not killed properly, they may survive and get away. Describes.

26.45 Birds left lying beside their hole, until around ten killed, then gathered up – called a hui (collecting ten birds) using a string with ten loops. Several hui slung over the shoulder.

28.50 MANU worked over several days and up to a fortnight, then a few days off, then PAHURA (pass by) where ground is worked over again. This usually occurs around 20 APRIL – birds easy to find because young birds are starting to come out of their burrows to exercise their wings.

End of Track Three

TRACK FOUR

00.00 Birds would leave a COATING OF THEIR DOWN around the site – indicates a bird still in the hole. Describes

01.25 Policy of the older birders not to walk over the birding ground, as BURROWS become DAMAGED. Expected to stay on tracks. Describes

03.45 GREEN TREES were never cut – elders believed that if cover denuded, the birds would go away.

05.30 Self’s grandchildren are taught to stay on tracks, not cut down green trees, and to treasure the wildlife, including the TIEKEI (SADDLEBACKS) and MEAWEKA (MINIATURE WEKA). 07.00 BUSH BIRDS have disappeared off many of the islands. Some birds on Big Island have been TAKEN TO OTHER ISLANDS to populate them, and to other parts of New Zealand. Problem with RATS on other islands, but NO VERMIN on Big Island - probably because the roughness of landing means that boats don’t lie at anchor, so rats don’t swim to shore. Rats cause enormous damage.

11.30 A joy to be on the island and hear the BIRDSONG. Self has been criticized for taking children on the island, but believes that the wildlife education is very important.

12.30 Around 25 April, after PAHURING (going back over the burrows) and no more birds are found in the burrows, NIGHT TORCHING starts. In the early days, people made their own TORCHES (RAMA) from strips of green flax, totara bark and dried flax soaked in grease. Describes. Then progressed to carbide bike lights, and later battery torches. 17.20 Ground looked like it had been rooted by pigs. During rama (torching) birds would still come out in their thousands. Self believes burrows must be deeper than thought. In the early days birds could be picked up by the armfuls. Today birds are not there any longer.

19.50 After rama, birds might be BEDDED DOWN by putting them on prepared beds made of feathers to keep them warm. Warm birds easier to pluck. FEATHERS REMOVED by plucking by hand, then down removed by dipping them into a tub of boiling water , then hung out for up to 24 hours to cool off before processing further.

21.50 Processed further by CUTTING THE BIRDS UP, salting them down, and placing in containers. Today some people have PLUCKING MACHINES, but self prefers hand plucking. Describes

23.10 Instead of dipping in hot water to remove down, WAX is now used. Describes

23.50 COOLERS used today, and birds are hung on racks to keep them away from flies etc. In earlier times the birds were hung out on a PHUTA or TUREWA – sticks formed in a triangle – to dry out. One year, KAKARIKI (parakeets) arrived from Stewart Island and feasted on the breastsof the birds. Also fed on black seeds of plants on the island.

26.40 After being hung to dry, birds are cut up – feet, tail, heads, wings taken off, bird gutted, then dry salted. Describes process

28.50 In the old days, birds put into barrels and PICKLED in their own juices before being put in kelp bags (poha) which were tied tightly and put in flax baskets (kete) and surrounded by bark and tarred.

End of Track Four

Second interview: 11 December 2001

TRACK FIVE

00.00 Once birds placed in KELP AND KETE, TARRED and were then the finished article – would keep for years. Birds were used as KOHAKAI (a gift in return for one given) to a central point, then taken up north as a gift to relatives and others, and in return for gifts from northern people. This practice no longer occurs.

03.50 BAGS cut and fashioned from KELP were known as RIMA. Describes process Favourite places for kelp gathering included OMAUI, PAPAKAHA (TIWAI) DOG ISLAND and island off HALFMOON BAY. KELP REGENERATES after being cut – self disagreed with scientists regarding this. At one stage kelp was being adversely affected by POLLUTION, but has recently regenerated. Self still makes kelp bags.

13.15 BUCKETS now used for storage of the birds. Was problems with leaking, but manufacturers now have lids which fit properly. Best way to store birds is by turning the bucket on its lid, or birds will go brown.

15.00 PICKLE cannot be made with fresh water – bird will rot. Birds are dry salted, then packed in container – they make their own pickle. Describes

17.30 When birds washed and hung out to dry, wings were folded back and birds dipped in boiling water to get down off. Birds too ‘floppy’ to cut right away, so hung up for 24 hours. Need to work fast – once bird becomes cold, difficult to get down off. Difficult process. Describes

21.20 Cooked birds before salting known as TITITAHU. OHURI process - . birds plucked, cleaned and bones removed. Describes. 200-300 birds cooked at a time – in their KATU (FAT) – North Island Maori particularly used this method. Describes. Method seldom used now.

End of Track Five

Third Interview: 24 December 2001

TRACK SIX

00.12 No longer cooks lots of muttonbirds. Were cooked in large, CAST IRON POTS, then put on to a GRIDDLE made of sticks to drain away fat. Then put into BARRELS lined with ferns or leaves and cloth put over the barrel to STEAM. Steaming necessary to keep birds soft. Once cold after 24 hours, put into KELP BAGS and HINU (fat) poured over them. Then tied airtight and placed in kete, distinguished bags by sheathing in RAUPO. This method stopped around 1960.

04.00 Other methods used. One was KOHIKU - cutting open bird and spread flat, threaded on to stick which leaned into open fire embers. HEARTS were cooked, stringing them with a needle onto threads, then put into the pot with birds cooking. Another delicacy was when HEADS AND WINGS of birds were stripped and plucked after boiling in fresh water, then dunked in boiling fat. Very little of the bird not used.

07.30 The above customary methods no longer used. The only things used today is the bird itself.

08.25 Another method in the past was a bed (a RARA) made using four sticks in the ground around a fire, then a framework tied. Birds (and also fish) laid on the framework and cooked. Also a method called MURUMURU used for shellfish, which were put into a kelp bag, then placed in another kelp bag and put in the embers. Six or seven different ways to cook food in the traditional ways, none of which are used now.

12.00 Self BOILS muttonbirds, sometimes eating them for breakfast with toast. Prefers the birds fresh rather than salted. Also ROASTS birds. Believes the nicest way to eat muttonbirds is fresh and boiled. Also stuffed and roasted muttonbirds takes a lot of beating. Taste better on the islands than at home.

14.00 Self knows a person who ate two muttonbirds every morning, choosing the fattest and boiling them up for breakfast. Would then skip lunch. 15.00 Self finishes with message given in Te Reo

End of Track Six