Kenneth Evan Brunton

Interviewer: Morag Forrester

Interview Date: 12 August 2008

Tape 1 Side A

004: States he is KENNETH EVAN BRUNTON and that he was born in 1947 in TIMARU (CANTERBURY) adding that he attended both primary and secondary schools in the town.

013: His FATHER, he says, was KENNETH JOHN BRUNTON whose main occupation was MILK CONTRACTOR (delivery) in TIMARU and surrounding district, including the HIGH COUNTRY STATIONS.

019: Replies that his MOTHER was BETTY (ELIZABETH) HINKS whose family also lived in TIMARU. His FATHER 'S family lived in WAIMATE. He later added that his ancestral links on the BRUNTON side came from the SCOTTISH BORDERS.

029: States that his MOTFER was a HOUSEWIFE: she died at the age of thirty-four when he was fifteen years old. He has one sibling; a BROTHER, ROSS, who is eighteen months younger than him.

044: Recalls that it was during his third year (at HIGH SCHOOL) that his MOTHER died (at home after a short illness related to renal failure) and although he excelled in the sport of ARCHERY (three times SOUTH ISLAND CHAMPION and NZ CHAMPION once) he left school (at the age of sixteen) to become a BUTCHER'S APPRENTICE.

054: The apprenticeship lasted about four years, he says, after which he decided to take up HUNTING full-time, it having been a part-time interest since he was a boy. He was first introduced to HUNTING by an UNCLE in WAIMATE. "I used to go down there every school holidays and he always took me out HUNTING and DUCK SHOOTING and I guess that's why I always wanted to...go HUNTING."

065: Goes on to say that he applied for a job as a government DEER CULLER with the NZ FOREST SERVICE (FS) which is what brought him to TE ANAU (in 1968 when he'd just turned twenty-one).

078: Referring back to his younger years, he says he would go round his UNCLE'S FARM "with a bow and arrow and just SHOOT hares and the odd wallaby. I was fifteen, I think, before I SHOT my first DEER".

081: "I can remember going up this gully and . . . seeing four or five DEER...just sneaking up on them...and just fired one SHOT…I was just so excited I think...that was my first DEER, you always seem to remember that."

096: On arrival at TE ANAU, he recalls, he was met by the FS SENIOR FIELD OFFICER, MAX EVANS. "He gave me a look around the base and around TE ANAU and then he took me up to FIVE RIVERS, behind MOSSBURN. That was in the JANUARY (1968) and I stayed there until MAY."

112: Replies that the CULLERS were paid at a rate of $6/TAIL while working in the EYRE MOUNTAINS area and $4/TAIL in the MURCHISON MOUNTAINS area of FIORDLAND. "If an area had more DEER you got paid a little less."

120: Adds that the government's method of payment was "quite a complex system" in that each CULLER was only allowed to earn up to $86/week (about twenty DEER) plus an allowance for food and board (HUTS). So if an employee SHOT 200 DEER in a month, there was no extra financial remuneration - instead the difference was paid by having time off in lieu.

130: "So sometimes I would go home for a month or more and help out back in the BUTCHER'S shop or work back on the FARM."

138: Admits, he didn't SHOOT as many DEER as experience later allowed. "I did a winter in MAVORA and a winter in the CLINTON and my cobber (workmate) and myself SHOT forty-two one day in a hanging basin so...your skills got better and better."

149: Names some of his workmates in that first year at JOHN LONIE, LEX SUDABY and REG CHILTON.

156: Replies that the CULLERS lived in the areas in which they were working, so that for those first months all his time was spent in the EYRE MTS. He recalls the accommodation as being FS HUTS, well-stocked with supplies. These were usually dropped by parachute from fixed wing aircraft.

161: "Everything was tinned... butter, pork, corned beef... we were very well looked after in that respect."

165: Says that he worked on his own, returning to the HUT base at the end of the day which was usually shared with one other CULLER. Sometimes, he would go "fly-tent" camping for a few days. "We never missed town at all...and the incentive was the more animals you SHOT... you had more time off."

186: An average day for a CULLER, he describes as "Up on daylight... walk up through the BUSH to the TOPS and if it's a nice day just HUNT (the) TOPS. Sometimes I'd carry a tent and fly-camp. In the MURCHISON MOUNTAINS... we had the...odd little cave or overhanging rock where you could just bivvy up for the night and if it was good weather, just carry on...HUNTING."

197: After a day's work, he says he was often exhausted but heeded advice from his superiors that no matter how tired the CULLERS were at the end of the day, they had to cook a meal, even if it meant forcing themselves to do so.

202: On bad weather days, he says, he would take a day off and perhaps bake bread (in a CAMP OVEN which was a deep, round, cast-iron pot) and chop firewood to ensure there was always plenty for the next CULLER on his rounds.

206: Once a month, he says, an FS FIELD OFFICER would carry out "TAIL DESTRUCTION". He explains that after each animal was SHOT the CULLERS were required to cut off its TAIL and a strip of hide along each side towards the backbone. The entire strip was then dried in the sun to prevent it decomposing and turning rancid.

217: At the end of the season, he says, the CULLERS "would have a bit of a leer-up in town". In 1968, he adds, he went home to TIMARU for a few weeks before returning to the TE ANAU BASIN for a winter season of CULLING in the MAVORA LAKES area in the "year of the big snow".

223: Says he experienced health problems after a few months, diagnosed as "snow burn". As part of his recovery he had to undergo skin grafts. "But I was right again for the next summer season."

239: Continues that he then worked in the MURCHISON MOUNTAINS (summer of 1968/69) including the TAKAHE VALLEY.

249: States the MURCHISON area was quite different from the EYRE MTS. Plus, he says, there were only two CULLERS - himself and RUSSELL DAWSON.

255: Replies that DAWSON was "quite an experienced HUNTER" who'd been employed by the FS a year before him. They remain friends (in 2008) after not only working together as FS CULLERS but also collaborating on MEATHUNTING jobs in DOUBTFUL SOUND and elsewhere.

265: In 1968, he says, there were about 250 TAKAHE in the MURCHISONS and as CULLERS they were employed to reduce the DEER numbers in order for the native bird population to survive.

[The TAKAHE was thought to be extinct as a species until a few were re-discovered in the MURCHISON MOUNTAINS of FIORDLAND by a team led by DR GEOFFREY ORBELL in the late 1940s. The large flightless blue/green plumed birds akin to the goose-family were thought to have found sanctuary in the MURCHISONS because the remote location left them generally predator-free. However, the increasing population of introduced DEER was a threat to the bird's food supply thereby adding to the government's eradication policy for all non-native browsing species.]

274: States that at that time, the DEER were in good condition in the MURCHISON area. He adds that when he was MEATHUNTING across more of the southern districts of FIORDLAND he could see a distinct difference in size among the DEER population, particularly in DOUBTFUL SOUND where he SHOT an animal weighing 1601bs.

292: As an aside, he mentions that when he had been CULLING in the MAVORA LAKES area, he worked with DICK DEAKER (another FS CULLER who was later employed as a PILOT for ALPINE HELICOPTERS during its VENISON RECOVERY operation in FIORDLÅND and other parts of OTAGO/SOUTHLAND) and BERNIE MILROY. He describes the latter as "a real hard case".

308: After the MURCHISONS, he says DAWSON and he took an FS contract to CULL DEER in the MILFORD TRACK area (during its off-season) It was at that time, he adds, that they were introduced to the idea of MEATHUNTING. Mentions how they met up with an unidentified HUNTER who would SHOOT DEER on the TRACK and instead of just leaving the carcasses lying around, loaded them onto a home-made trailer and took them back to TE ANAU to sell.

316: Mentions an occasion when he and DAWSON SHOT forty-two DEER in one day. "To us it just seemed a bit of a waste..." so they gave up the FS work as CULLERS and became NŒATHUNTERS for EVAN MEREDITH, owner of the VENISON FACTORY in TE ANAU.

323: Says that MEREDITH (who was a partner in the VENISON RECOVERY consortium, GAME COLLECTION LTD) installed large (walk-in style) FREEZERS in the FIORDLAND SOUNDS, from CHARLES SOUND, PRECIPICE COVE, ELIZABETH ISLAND, BREAKSEA SOUND, DUCK COVE on RESOLUTION ISLAND, to LAKE POTERITERI.

326: Continues that MEREDITH asked him and DAWSON to work as MEATHUNTERS in the DOUBTFUL SOUND area. At first, he says, they lived in a tent until they built a HUT out of old timber and other materials that were leftovers from the construction site of the MANAPOURI HYDRO-POWER SCHEME (in the DEEP COVE area).

333: Referring back to the off-season HUNTING in the MILFORD TRACK, he says their main job as FS CULLERS was to SHOOT (WILD) GOATS whose population had proliferated during the years of WWII. "We HUNTED from NURSE CREEK round to the NEIL BURN...and the NORTH BRANCH right up to MINTARA."

346: Says that any DEER they happened to SHOOT while working on the TRACK they gave to the unidentified HUNTER with the home-made wagon. Deer were abundant: "I remember looking up over the PRAIRIE one morning and there'd be fifty, sixty (DEER) feeding on the flats."

351: While on the TRACK, he says, they lived in the government-owned HUTS or their own tents.

367: Having explained again that MEATHUNTING offered better prospects in the late 1960s for young SHOOTERS than continuing to work as government CULLERS, he says the deal with MEREDITH was that they SHOT the DEER (gutted it which meant removing head and inner organs such as heart and lungs) and carried the CARCASSES (often by powered dinghy) back to base (where the FREEZER was positioned).

370: Explains that once there was a good enough supply of meat ready for transportation, usually a floatplane was used to take the carcasses back to TE ANAU after having dropped off fresh food supplies.

379: As an example, he says that in the ELIZABETH RIVER area he and DAWSON averaged between 400 and 500 DEER each season which lasted from SEPTEIOER to MAY. While they lived in the area for most of that period, sometimes they took a break by going to one of the neighbouring bases such as DUCK COVE or LAKE POTERITERI.

403: Replies that while the FREEZERS worked well enough, hygiene regulations would prohibit any similar storage system being attempted today (2008). "There was the odd fly-blow on them (CARCASSES) if you hung them up during the day."

407: As for his preferred type of RIFLE for DEER SHOOTING, he says he started on an ENFIELD .303 (an ex-military rifle borrowed from his UNCLE) followed by a 30.06 (sporting RIFLE) and then a BSA MONARCH .203. When he went MEATHUNTING, he says, he bought a BROWNING SEMI-AUTOMATIC .243.

Tape I Side A stops Tape I Side B starts

006: Continuing discussion about the BROWNING SEW-AUTOMATIC, he says he was one of half-a-dozen SHOOTERS in the TE ANAU area who bought that type and model (at a price of about $350 each) "Gee the TALLIES, they really went up then... every time you pulled the trigger it went off…and for SHOOTING out of the boat or BUSHHUNTING.. .it certainly made a difference to our TALLIES."

By the late 1960s and into the 1970s VENISON RECOVERY in NEW ZEALAND, particularly FIORDLAND and the WEST COAST areas, had become increasingly competitive with consortia such as GAME COLLECTION (a group that included LUGGATE PACKERS - later known as ALPINE I-ELICOPTERS) sparring with others such as REX GILES MOUNTAW HELICOPTERS and EDMONDS GAIVΠCONSOLIDATED LTD ofCHRISTCHURCH as well as a growing number ofindividual HUNTER PILOT operators.

[In 1967 the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK BOARD awarded a three-year contract of DEER eradication using HELICOPTERS to LGP/ALPWE, effectively granting them sole rights to HUNT the extensive area. This contract was renewed in 1970, offsetting protests from other groups and individuals some of whom undertook illegal VENISON. RECOVERY sorties within the PARK boundaries. As part of its operation, ALPINE HELICOPTERS (owned and operated by SIR TIM WALLIS) expanded its resources by employing several PILOTS and SHOOTERS as well as investing in it’s fleet by adding newer HELICOPTERS such as the HUGHES 300s and 500s and a BELL-JET RANGER HELICOPTER (for bulk lifting). It also bought and positioned two meat processing/carrying vessels in the SOUNDS - the RANGWUI and the HOTONUI - from which the HELICOPTER teams operated each day.]

033: Recalls that teams working off the RANGINUI at DEEP COVE in DOUBTFUL SOUND were often returning with combined TALLIES of up to 200 DEER a day. "While we weren't getting big numbers (working for MEREDITH)...it was all having an effect on the DEER.. .they were getting flogged."

046: Mentions that their method of payment was based on a market price per kilo of MEAT. "Every time the FLOATPLANE went out...the DEER were tagged and we would write our names on the tags and the DEER were weighed and we were paid so much a kilo.'

[For a brief spell in mid-1972, the market price was super-inflated from an average range of between 30c and 60c per (imperial) pound of meat to $1/lb.]

055: "It was really good money... you could earn well over a thousand dollars a week... it made your DEER CULLING money look just a mere pittance." He adds that the money was still hard earned. "You didn't get days in lieu either...the harder you worked the more money you made."

069: Replies that their living conditions were reasonable. At the ELIZABETH RIVER, for example, he says they had a two-bunk HUT which was heated by a diesel-converted coal range. "The shower was a four-gallon bucket out on a tree. One guy'd heat the water up and the other guy'd race out before the sandflies took over.'

077: Being only about twenty minutes away [by dinghy] from DEEP COVE, he says they didn't feel too isolated. "The guys further down the SOUNDS probably had bigger expenses because they had to fly in and out by aeroplane whereas we could get out over the [WILMOT] PASS. And later on we used to just come in on the bus [to DEEP COVE] and jump in our boats and tear down the [DOUBTFUL] SOUND."

089: [Tape stopped and re-started following interruption.]

098: Replies that he and DAWSON each owned a 12ft-long dinghy [motorised] in which they "used to tear round the SOUNDS...I don't know how the hell we survived really... we used to put up with some fairly ferocious conditions".

116: Affirms that they used the dinghies to carry some of the DEER shot on the shores and immediate hinterland at HALL ARM, CROOKED ARM and FIRST ARM. [Slight interruption here as participant's microphone was more securely positioned].

124: Recalls that the work didn't always go smoothly and illustrates this comment by relating an occasion in the CROOKED ARM area when rising floodwaters prevented their return to base and they were forced to camp out for the night. The following day, the river flowing at a faster pace, his dinghy overturned and ended up "bobbing out on the SOUND", its motor smashed to pieces.

139: Fortunately, he says, with DAWSON'S boat relatively unscathed, they both returned to base.

141: After that incident, he adds, they built a smaller base at CROOKED ARM and installed a MEATSAFE so that when the weather turned rough there was somewhere for them to shelter until better conditions prevailed.

159: Travelling average distances of about 30km/day, he says, the dinghies could carry up to half a dozen DEER CARCASSES at any one time. "It's amazing what we got away with, really."

162: The lie of the land dictated how far they worked from the shoreline. There were quite a few steep-sided valleys which meant they HUNTED only the valley floor, although occasionally there were some long valleys, particularly in the CROOKED ARM area, that were "good HUNTING".

171: Replies that he and DAWSON re-loaded their AUMMUNITION and explains this further by saying that whenever their supplies were getting low, they would take a trip out to DAWSON'S home on the south coast and spend a couple of days replenishing the spent BULLET SHELLS.

179: Describes how they re-loaded empty SHELLS which they managed to save while SHOOTING at DEER. These were then re-packed with projectiles and gunpowder which was a way of saving on overall expenses.

181: Mentions that while working for the FS, CULLERS were allocated three rounds [of AMMUNITION] for each animal killed using .303 RIFLES. But later, when they used the HIGH CALIBRE RIFLES, they supplied their own ANMUNITION.

190: Saving the SHELLS, he affirms, meant picking them up after each kill. "I wasn't so good at it because I was left-handed...but I could still see RUSSELL. He used to go 'BANG' and when he worked the bolt, he used to catch the empty SHELL...and he'd have a fistful at the end."

195: It was different, again, he says when they were using the SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLES which sprayed the BULLETS over a wider area so that along with their food stores, the VENISON FACTORY sent in fresh supplies of AMMUNITION as required.

204: Mentions that as well as employing GROUNDHUNTERS with dinghies on the SOUNDS, his contractor, EVAN MEREDITH, also used HELICOPTERS for MEATHUNTING activities, particularly in the MARTINS BAY area.

209: In explaining his reasons for opting to work the MARTINS BAY district, he says that the price hike of $ 1/1b for VENISON was followed by a slump in the VR industry when there was no money to be made (late 1972 into 1973).

214: So he decided to return home to TIMARU where he was employed at the FREEZING WORKS for a season. But it didn't provide job satisfaction so he was prepared to consider an offer from MEREDITH to work as MANAGER of the VENISON FACTORY in TE ANAU.

223: At the same time, he continues, a MEATHUNTER based at MARTINS BAY named KEVIN HALLETT, presented an alternative offer for the participant to take over the MEATHUNTING work at MARTINS BAY while he (HALLETT) went CRAYFISHING in DUSKY SOUND.

229: Says he undertook a reconnaissance DEERHUNTING trip by HELICOPTER, operated by RICHARD HAYES with SHOOTER, BOB WILLS, also on board. As a result, he considered there were probably sufficient numbers of DEER to make a living from NŒATHUNTING in the MARTINS BAY area.

239: Having briefly mentioned that on his return, earlier, to TIMARU, he also got MARRIED (in 1973), he replies that his WIFE is ANNETTE (ANNIE) neé KENNEDY who was from WAIMATE and worked as a nurse (in WAIMATE and later in TIWRU). He briefly describes how they met.

264: Mentions that their honeymoon included a visit to NELSON DISTRICT for a week followed by a second week at the HUT in DOUBTFUL SOUND. "1 think 1 SHOT about eight DEER on my honeymoon."

277: As a result, he says, ANNIE was happy enough for them to spend a MEATHUNTING season at MARTINS BAY in 1974. "Now you can't get her out of the place."

282: Replies that KEVIN HALLETT had worked as a ÑŒATHUNTER there for a while interspersed with spells POSSUM HUNTING further north. HALLETT' S house, he says, was an assortment of ex-WEST ARM (HYDRO PROJECT) HUTS abutted into one dwelling with heating/cooking on a diesel-powered stove. It was situated on the banks of the HOLLYFORD RIVER at the end of the MARTINS BAY airstrip.

295: Because it was part of the GAME COLLECTION set-up, he says a fixed wing aircraft based at CROMWELL (PILOT was SAM BECKERSTAFF) serviced the northern FIORDLAND coast including the KAIPO VALLEY where the HUNTERS were JOHN CLARKE and ARCHIE ANDERSON.

298 Mentions that initially, HALLETT had a team of horses to carry the MEAT out of the HOUKURI VALLEY for pickup by plane - a CESSNA 180.

305: Again says that HALLETT was happy to temporarily hand over his job, his house and even his HUNTING dog for the period that he was away CRAYFISHING with another MEATHUNTER, BARRY GILROY, whose patch was the PYKE RIVER and LAKE ALABASTER.

313: Considers that part of the reason they opted to go CRAYFISHING for a while was due to the reduction in DEER numbers (by 1974) as a result of the heavy use of HELICOPTERS for MEATHUNTING. "At one stage there were six or seven HELICOPTERS based at MARTINS BAY."

316: Eventually, he adds, HALLETT moved to ALEXANDRA and went SHOOTNG with DOUG MAXWELL.

320: States that HALLETT'S HUNTING dog (called SKIP) was the participant's introduction to BUSH-HUNTING with a dog. "At MARTINS BAY there's acres of supplejack and you could walk past a DEER twenty metres away... but the dog would certainly let you...he would just point, indicate it was there. It was just another set of ears and eyes for you really."

344: "To survive as a GROUNDSHOOTER at MARTINS BAY you would have to have a dog if you wanted to make a good living out of it... So I decided to try out a WEIMARANER [a breed of 'pointer ' named after its place of origin — WEIMAR in GERMANY]."

348: Considers it was probably the first of its kind introduced in SOUTHLAND and certainly the first to be licensed in the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK where there was a prohibition placed on dogs being allowed to roam because of the risk to vulnerable native birds.

352: In order to gain a licence for the dog, he says an RANGER, RON PEACOCK, accompanied him (and dog) for a day's DEERHUNTING in the back country at MANAPOURI. By the end of the day, he says, PEACOCK seemed to be assured that the dog wouldn't be a danger to the native birdlife after having seen the way it worked the DEER.

361. Interview closed at this point and tape stopped.

[A second recording was conducted at the same place two days later on 14 AUGUST 2008 It opens with a continuation of the participant 's (along with his WIFE, ANNIE 'S) decision to spend a season MEATHUNTING at MARTINS BAY where they lived at the home of KEVIN HALLETT]

368: Explains again that the house was essentially a HUT on the banks of the HOLLYFORD RIVER on land owned by the CATHOLIC CHURCH. Eventually the HUT (or series of them) was pulled down, leaving a vacant lot.

379: As far as the MEATHUNTING went, he says EVAN MEREDITH (owner of the VENISON FACTORY in TE ANAU) had bought two HELICOPTERS, one of them a (HUGHES) 300 devoted for use in AERIAL SHOOTING. He adds that a PILOT (GERRY FINDLAY) was employed to operate the CHOPPER and also became a third member of the BRUNTON household at MARTINS BAY.

386: During the day, he says, their HUNTING grounds ranged from BIG BAY north to CASCADE CREEK and the HOLLYFORD and PYKE RIVERS, HOUKURI and MARTINS BAY and around the KAIPO VALLEY, further south.

I395: The DEER in this area, he says, were in very good condition probably because of acres of flat grasslands with clover.

399: Mentions that he also had use of a JETBOAT so that whenever the HELICOPTER had to undergo regular maintenance checks he went MEATHUNTING on his own.

404: Replies that he was not completely new to AERIAL SHOOTING having worked on a BELL (JET) 47 for HELICOPTERS NEW ZEALAND (HNZ). The PILOT, he says, was TONY JONES who had previously been a FLOATPLANE PILOT in TE ANAU for many years.

407: JONES, he says, offered him a job as SHOOTER and LOADER DRIVER based out of TIMARU. Talks of SHOOTING TAHR (for the FOREST SERVICE) in the back country around the RAKAIA, WILBERFORCE and MATTIAS VALLEYS. "That was just search and destroy...nothing was picked up."

414: However, he adds, JONES was killed (in a HELICOPTER accident), which brought that job to an end for the participant.

Tape I Side B stops

Tape 2 Side A starts

006: Having become an experienced GROUNDSHOOTER and MEATHUNTER, he admits that working from HELICOPTERS "took a wee bit of getting used to" but with more practise he improved and soon he "really, really enjoyed it".

012: Says GERRY FINDLAY left and his replacement was TOM TREVOR who flew a HILLER (HELICOPTER) which was used for AERIAL SHOOTING. Adds that he (the participant) installed MEATSAFES at HAUKURI and at MARTINS BAY where he stored any DEER CARCASSES that he SHOT within close enough vicinity to them. Every couple of days, the MEAT SAFES were emptied and the VENISON taken back to TE ANAU.

037: Mentions that when he was doing AERIAL SHOOTS it was normal practice for the SHOOTER'S door to have been removed so that he could lean out and take better aim at a moving target below.

044: Affirms that he was involved in a couple of serious HELICOPTER accidents, but these were later, during the period of LIVE CAPTURE (when demand for VENISON had been overtaken by buyers keen to begin DEER FARMING using breeding stock taken from the wild).

048: Goes on to describe one of the accidents (in 1980). The PILOT was ALAN BOND and there was a SHOOTER (TIC PAULIN) in the back seat of the HELICOPTER. says he had NETTED a DEER in the WHITEWATER (VALLEY) but one of the weights on the NET struck a blade on the machine which crashed and rolled down the hill.

056: Recalls that both he and BOND sustained serious injuries in the crash but PAULIN had been left relatively unscathed and had done as much as possible to make the injured crew as comfortable as possible until rescue arrived.

067: "I remember him taking the seats out of the HELICOPTER and setting fire to them to keep us warm. And he made us a sort of cup of tea and fed us with a syringe."

073: It was fourteen hours later, he says, that a search and rescue team found them and brought them out to TE ANAU and on to hospital in INVERCARGILL. He adds that after a couple of months in traction, he was fully recovered and went straight back to the same work as before, including getting in and out of HELICOPTERS.

[LIVE CAPTURE of DEER was first experimented with in 1969 when TRANQUILLIZER DARTS and NETS were used to put the animals in a stupor before tying up their legs and carrying them out on a long line under the belly of the HELICOPTER. Thereafter, other methods were tried such as the pioneer GOTCHA (NET) GUN which underwent several modifications including the THOMPSON GUN (devised by NELSON THOMPSON of TE ANAU). And instead of long lines, canvas bags or even wooden crates were tried as a method of carrying the animals out rather than hanging them from longlines.]

087: Backtracking a little, he says that before that crash happened, he had been working for a couple of years with DAVE KERSHAW who initially began MEATHUNTING using a JETBOAT at MARTINS BAY. He continues that after KERSHAW gained his HELICOPTER licence, he was employed as a PILOT by ALPINE HELICOPTERS and worked out of MARTINS BAY on a HUGHES 300.

098: Describes trying to use the TRANQUILLIZER DARTS for LIVE CAPTURE, while ALPINE was experimenting with this system at MINARET STATION (WALLIS' home and DEER FARMWG base) near LUGGATE.

117: Replies that when NETTING the DEER became a more popular method, it still required some care and cites the HELICOPTER crash he mentioned earlier as an example of what could happen if things went wrong.

123. Comments that a lot of accidents occurred during that period and blames some of them on the use of NETS and also the practice of chasing the animals (in the HELICOPTER) close in to steep-sided hills. "One particular year I think we went to about twelve funerals...it was terrible."

133: Says that after the winter of living at LUGGATE, WALLIS asked him and KERSHAW to work for a while in the NORTH ISLAND in the PAHIATUA area. And although he was asked to consider moving there permanently, he says he missed being at MARTINS BAY.so he returned to GROUNDSHOOTING work there.

143: Not long afterwards, he says, WALLIS asked him to work with MAKARORA-based PILOT, ALAN DUNCAN, whose SHOOTER (BOB WHITE) was recovering from injuries sustained in a HELICOPTER crash in the HAAST area.

144: Mentions that his WIFE, ANNIE and their two young CHILDREN accompanied him to MAKARORA (in 1977/78)

147: Describes DUNCAN as "really good to work with" as PILOT (of a HUGHES 500), adding that they were involved in LIVE CAPTURE experimenting with both TRANQUILLIZER DARTS and NETGUNS.

153: After returning once more to MARTINS BAY, he says he worked for a brief spell as SHOOTER for WALLIS off the RANGINUI "catching mainly in the WAPITI block" until he went to work for ALAN BOND (prior to the crash mentioned above at #048-

163: "It is hard work...you start early in the morning and some days you'd fly all day. 'Specially up at MAKARORA, I thought I'd go up there and just do a couple of hours in the morning and a couple of hours at night, but old DUNKY, he just wanted to work all day, which was good. The more DEER you got, the more money you made."

172: "Probably harder on the PILOT...the SHOOTER'S job...was quite physical but I think it would be mentally draining flying those hours all day. Some of those jokers were doing almost fifty hours a week, it's amazing really."

181 Since the purpose of LIVE CAPTURE was to initiate DEER FARMS, he says it was mainly the female of the species (HINDS) that were targeted. "Sometimes the STAGS were caught. I can remember STAGS being worth $750 and I think at the time HINDS were worth two or three thousand dollars (each)."

189: With the DART method (in 1977), he says that after the SHOOTER had successfully SHOT a DEER, the DART that had pierced the animal's hide also had a "crystal" transmitter which relayed its location back to a monitor screen installed in the HELICOPTER.

196: Says this made it easier to find the animal which usually ran for cover. Once located, the HELICOPTER would hover over the animal, which by then would have been in a state of torpor, the SHOOTER would slide down the chain suspended from the HELICOPTER, land next to the (hopefully) sleeping animal, bind its legs and administer an antidote (for the sedative), and carry it (hooked under the CHOPPER) to a nearby holding pen (before it was transported the much longer distance back to TE ANA U or direct to the farmer/buyer).

205: As for NETTING, he says the NET (fired at first from a modified RIFLE called a NETGUN and later from a contraption fitted to the HELICOPTER which was able to be triggered by the PILOT) was thrown over a running DEER.

215: Briefly explains that the first NETGUN was a two-barrelled "GOTCHA GUN", followed by a three-barrelled and then a four-barrelled version. The latter, he says, were very effective with the weights (attached to the NETS) balanced in each corner so that it threw the NET completely over the DEER. The idea was for the animal to become entangled thus bringing it to an abrupt halt as it fled the CHOPPER. But some of the early versions were not very effective and only enmeshed part of the animal. Sometimes they would continue to flee, dragging the net with them.

219: The SHOOTER, then jumped from the HELICOPTER, tied the animal's legs together, attached a STROP and hooked that to a CHAIN suspended from the underside of the HELICOPTER.

223: Sometimes, he says, the SHOOTER had to jump from quite a height "you sprained the odd ankle" or, on other occasions, had to climb down from the top of a tree and back up again once the animal was successfully attached to the CHAIN.

227: Explains that the NETTED DEER was tethered while still entangled and where possible carried to a clearing where the HELICOPTER could land. Then they were attached to the CHAIN (usually up to three at a time) or later put into a "LIVEY BAG" (a specially designed canvas bag).

233 "Their feet were tied, criss-cross, and the head was looking out of the bag and you just laced up the front of the bag and at the back of the head there was a place for the STROP to go in the bag and... you could carry three or four, four or five under the HELICOPTER."

239: The NETS were then re-packed into the four-barrelled GUN, he adds.

243: Affirms that many of the SHOOTERS sustained injuries after firing the NETGUNS. "One time my hands were so sore that every time you pulled the trigger it just tore the skin off your fingers and in the end you were virtually hoping you wouldn't see a DEER...they were pretty rough, the first lot of GUNS that came out.'

249: Admits the incentive was the financial returns. "There was really good money to be made... although we were only working for a company... we were still making really good wages."

253: Says they were paid a set rate for each animal. "So the more animals you caught, the more money you made... it was split usually 50/50 (with the PILOT)."

262: At the height of the VR industry, he says there were up to six different HELICOPTER operators in the MARTINS BAY area. Many of them, he says, had permits to work in the area south of HAAST, except within the FNP boundaries. After 1973, when the PARK authorities began to open up permit allocations, he says some ex-ALPINE crews formed their own companies and continued to push for still greater access.

272: Says the authorities offered a BLOCK HUNTING permit system from MILFORD to MARTINS BAY and further south around LAKE MONOWAI. But eventually, he adds, the whole PARK was opened up except the WAPITI BLOCK which was balloted.

280: Of those six other operators at HAAST and MARTINS BAY, he says they included DOUG MAXWELL whose SHOOTER was KEVIN HALLETT, RAY NICHOLAS (PILOT of a HUGHES 300) and (SHOOTER) WES MCIVOR, GRANT LEIGHTON (HUGHES 300 PILOT) and (SHOOTER) BERNIE MILROY, BRYAN EGGLETON (HUGHES 300), TOM TREVOR (HILLER 120, DAVE SAXTON (HUGHES 300), MARTY and PATRICK NOLAN, DAVE KERSHAW (HUGHES 300), and ALAN DUNCAN (also mentions HARVEY HUTTON (PILOT) slightly later).

300: Explains that many of the operators were based at HAAST (covering WESTLAND) and worked vast stretches of more open valleys such as the ARAWATA and WAITOTO. Often they would venture down the PYKE RIVER and around MARTINS BAY.

310: Replies that there was a strong competitive element between operators in those days and mentions what were known as the HELICOPTER WARS (around the 1972 period when VENISON was priced at $1/lb which led to a big influx of independent operators wanting in on the game).

330: Mentions that he and ANNIE have two CHILDREN - TONY and JENNIE, born in the latter half of the 1970s. Comments that until the accident near the WHITEWATER VALLEY, he hadn't been overly concerned about working in a high risk occupation although he admits that there was greater anxiety for his WIFE and family at home.

347: "You never ever think of the accidents.. .when you're working on them (HELICOPTERS). I suppose you always think it'll never happen to you but sometimes it does.'

351: As far as the lifestyle they experienced at MARTINS BAY, he points out that because they had regular HELICOPTER access in and out, there were few problems with regard to supplies or necessities although, again, he admits that ANNIE may have suffered a bit more with trying to bring up a young family.

356: When the CHILDREN reached school age (early 1980s) he says they were taught through the NZ CORRESPONDENCE SCHOOL. By then, he says, they had begun WHITEBAITING at the mouth of the HOLLYFORD RIVER where they pitched a tent as a makeshift classroom.

366: Talks about a second HELICOPTER accident in which he was injured. It occurred in 1983 and the PILOT was KIM HOLLOWS. He says they had left MARTINS BAY for a day' s LIVE CAPTURE but while working, the machine crashed and rolled down a hillside smashing into a tree. Says HOLLOWS sustained serious back injuries while his own injuries included broken ribs and leg.

372: The accident happened, he says, in thick bush cover near GUNN'S CAMP in the HOLLYFORD VALLEY. Although there were several other aircraft working in the area, they were both too badly injured to raise the alarm. The front of the HELICOPTER, he adds, was wrecked but he managed to retrieve his damaged RIFLE enough to fire three SHOTS.

381: Some hours later amid a search for the missing HELICOPTER and its occupants, he says, DAVE KERSHAW was told by MURRAY GUNN (at the CAMP) that he'd earlier heard some SHOTS "up above". On seeing KERSHAW flying towards them, he says, he fired the last flare to indicate their position. [See newspaper cuttings page].

386: Continues that it was BILL BLACK who airlifted them out (hooked to a long strop) to GUNN'S CAMP from where they were transported to hospital where he spent a while in recovery. "But I come right again."

390: Having mentioned that in the early 1980s, he and ANNIE had started WHITEBAITING, he explains what that means. "WHITEBAIT is a collective term for five or six different forms of GALAXIAS (native fish to NEW ZEALAND) that come into our river systems every year."

397: They are juvenile fish, he says, the eggs having been laid in JANUARY/FEBRUARY below the high tide mark and the tide carries them out to sea. It is the SPRING TIDE (SEPTEMBER) that brings the hatched juvenile fish back into the river system.

401: The attraction, he states, is money especially in a good season when it is possible to net about one tonne's worth (with a market price of $15/250gms.). But he thinks the river mouth has been overfished. "The catches aren't nearly as good as they...used to be."

408 Although he's been WHITEBAITING for about twenty years, he says it was not an activity he was much interested in when he was MEATHUNTING. And even though he got more involved later on: "I'm the world's worst WHITEBAITER, it's far too boring".

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002: Continuing the discussion about WHITEBAITING at MARTINS BAY, he says fellow WHITEBAITERS were LESTER CRAW, IAN BULLING, PERCY BULLING and RAY BULLFIN who all stayed in one HUT.

007: Next door to them was JOE KINLEY who'd been a permanent settler since the early 1950s. He says KINLEY was nicknamed the MAYOR of MARTINS BAY partly because of his long grey hair and beard and individual personality - 'tended to fall out with everybody that went in there".

023 As a generalisation, he says WHITEBAITERS seem to have volatile friendships with each other.

036. Considers that probably because he was not too involved in WHITEBAITING, he was able to get on well with everybody there. And relates an anecdote concerning the sale of KINLEY'S dinghy and the convoluted machinations because the vendor (KINLEY) and the eventual purchaser (PERCY BULLING) were not on good terms with each other at the time.

074: The WHITEBAITER'S STANDS, he says, were positioned on the HOLLYFORD RIVER (across from the BAR — the sandbank — at the mouth of the river) and their HUTS were situated further up the river not far from the mouth of JERUSALEM CREEK.

090: Says the methods used in the early days were "pretty primitive" with the fish put into tins and flown out. He adds that it was JULES TAPPER (a fixed wing PILOT who operated a tour company through the HOLLYFORD, which included overnight accommodation in privately-owned huts/cabins) who carried the WHITEBAIT out of MARTINS BAY to INVERCARGILL.

107: Mentions that in the 1940s/50s there was a WHITEBAITER by the name of ERIC MIDGLEY in the BIG BAY area (the next bay north).

117: Talks about BILL HEWETT (a MOSSBURN-based PILOT who in the 1950s operated freight-carrying flights by AEROVAN between CENTRAL OTAGO, the WEST COAST and southern districts) being involved in the construction of one of the two MARTINS BAY airstrips.

155: [Participant attempts to explain what WHITEBAITING involves until the tape is stopped and re-started to allow him to use photographs as an aid to his description which follows:]

161: First, he says, a STAND is built (close to the riverbank) consisting of four poles driven into the riverbed about one metre apart with a row of planks along the top. SCREENS are then fitted into one-metre-wide SILLS (slab of wood) which have to be removed each night, cleaned and then stacked on the riverbank before being replaced the next day. NETTING is strung across the outside of the SCREENS so that when the WHITEBAIT swim upstream, they hit the obstructions, work their way out and in doing so swim into the NET. The WHITEBAITER then tips the NETTED fish into a DAY BOX, which sits in the water next to the STAND.

177: Says that as a WHITEBAITER is effectively his/her own "fish factory", both cleanliness and tidiness are crucial. As they sit in the DAY BOX, he continues, the fish are being continuously sifted until rendered "spotlessly clean". They are then removed and put into clean, plastic buckets, taken home, packed into 250gm bags and frozen immediately.

189: Replies that in 2007/8 the wholesale price paid to the WHITEBAITER is about $15/250gm pack, a sum that is doubled by the time it reaches the supermarket shelf.

193: Explains that WHITEBAIT is usually made into a "patty" and that "everyone thinks their recipe is the best" but essentially the fish are combined with eggs and flour and fried like a burger. "Absolutely beautiful."

217: Referring back to 1983 and the decision to move the family out of MARTINS BAY to a home in TE ANAU, he says, it came partly as a result of the HELICOPTER crash in the HOLLYFORD and partly to pursue a long-held wish to FARM DEER.

221: Changes in the VR industry also contributed, he says. As mentioned previously, when he started MEATHUNTING, SHOOTERS gutted the dead animal before it was carried out. But MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE & FORESTRY (MAF) requirements became more stringent, he says, which eventually meant leaving the CARCASS intact for it to be cleaned up in the FACTORY.

227: As a result, it meant more weight being carried for less money so it became a less profitable job. Adds that when they moved to TE ANAU, he was still involved in LIVE CAPTURE work to a lesser degree.

239: Recalls that it was almost impossible to buy a FARM in 1983 because rural properties were so expensive. "Any time a small block would come up, people would just outbid you all the time."

245: In the end, he says, he and three friends [RICHARD HAYES, OWEN BUCKWGHAM and TIC PAULIN] collaborated in the purchase of a FARM (owned by LINDSAY WILSON) that had come onto the market in 1983. The four then subdivided the 400-acre property. It had been part of the LANDS & SURVEY WHITESTONE BLOCK- one of several that were sub-divided off the original 61, 640-acre LYNWOOD STATION run that the government purchased in 1954 at the start of its extensive FARM DEVELOPMENT SCHEME in the TE ANAU BASIN which continued into the early 1980s.

264: The allocation of the four sub-divided parts, he says, was decided on their own ballot system. "We drew the short match, so HANNIBAL (HAYES) got the house block and I was given the next preference which was next door. I chose this piece 'cos it had a wee bit of a hill and I thought it would be good for calving HINDS."

270: The 120 acres (which cost $86, 000 in 1983), he says, was bare land to start with but "you just built buildings as you got a few bob". It is stocked only with DEER (200 HINDS).

277: Continues that as well as their home, they also built DEER yards and other outbuildings, planted trees and the house garden and put up all their own DEER fencing "takes a few years to get everything done"

298: Gives an estimated market price on the 400-acre property in 1983 at about $400,000

309: Discussion moves on to a more recent interest, one that focuses on the conservation of EELS. As part of the WAIAU TE MAHIKA KAI TRUST - (initially funded by the SOE, MERIDIAN ENERGY and adopted by the government 's scientific-research agency NIWA) - the aim is to try to avert the risk of depleted EEL populations.

310: Explains that the problem occurs only with MIGRATORY EELS, which as they swim out to sea (on their way to the PACIFIC ISLANDS to breed) they get caught in the fast flowing current of the WAIAU RIVER and end up being minced by the huge generating turbines of the MANAPOURI HYDRO POWER PLANT. He says that for a few years, some of the MIGRATORY EELS were being caught before being swept into the fast flowing downstream ahead of the turbines and put back in further down river to continue their long journey.

315: However, the MWA scientists from have recommended a study be carried out to determine how many of the EELS were going through the turbines.

317: Says there is a vast area to cover in the research since the MIGRATORY EELS first travel along the tributaries that flow into LAKE TE ANAU or LAKE MANAPOURI, down the WAIAU RIVER, past TUATAPERE and out to sea where they navigate a 4000km-swim north to somewhere round TONGA to breed.

322: Continues that NIWA scientists decided transmitters should be put into those EELS that weigh more than 2kg so that their journey could be monitored. Says the transmitters cost about US$600 each and that he was averaging about thirty implants a year. They were tracked by the same number of receivers installed at various locations around LAKE MANAPOURI and at the bottom of LAKE TE ANAU and at MONOWAI and TUATAPERE.

332: Some receivers, he says, were put on the "boom" at WEST ARM to track how many of the transmitter-carrying EELS went through the turbines.

334: A female LONG-FIN, he says, is eighty years old before it MIGRATES which means it only breeds once in its life. The male, on the other hand, only grows to about 800gms (not the 2kg or more of the female) so they were too small for the implants. Instead, he says, PIT (PASSIVE INTEGRATED TRANSPONDER) tags were inserted which could easily be read on a monitor that he carries on his boat.

346: Because the transmitters that are implanted in the MIGRATORY EELS are quite large (4 inches x 1/2 inch) he has to perform rudimentary surgery on them which is done at home. Says the EELS are first anaesthetised, then cut open with a scalpel and the transmitter inserted (after having been coated in beeswax).

362: Since he began inserting the transmitters about four years ago, he says, it' s been calculated that 40% of those EELS have gone through the turbines and that with the extra water flow this year, NIWA scientists are predicting that figure will have increased to 75%.

373: Replies that it's easy to spot a MIGRATORY EEL because it undergoes obvious changes. Its nose becomes elongated and pointed, the eyes bulge and the skin takes on a bronze-purple tinge rather than the more common black-brown hue.

381: The male of the species, he says, swim out to sea first and are followed by the females and the two meet up around TONGA. By the time the female gets there, she is carrying millions of eggs which are growing all the time so that her stomach starts to sag with the weight of them.

385: In order to avoid predators during the ocean journey, he says, the female dives to a depth of 800 metres during the day and rises to the surface at night. "When they get there (TONGA), they breed and they die."

388: For the first year of their life, he says, the young (ELVER) float like plankton and are carried along by the ocean current which brings them back to NEW ZEALAND and ideally they make their way back up the WAIAU RIVER into the LAKES and along to the head of all those creeks and tributaries.

394: Says that at the MARAROA WEIR/CONTROL GATES, he used to trap the ELVER. "Just on dusk, millions of these little EELS would just come up and start climbing on the concrete like worms and we used to scoop them up and cart them round and put them into the river."

398: But now, he adds, MERIDIAN ENERGY, has installed an ELVER trap from which they are released back into the water at a safe distance from the weir by two representatives of the local RUNUNGA IWI.

403: Replies that this EEL problem not only affects NEW ZEALAND, it occurs in any area where HYDRO-ELECTRIC SCHEMES have been constructed "but unfortunately we need power so the fish have got to be helped in some way".

Interview ends

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