HO585 Neville John Wilson

Interviewer: Vanya Bailey

Abstracter: Maree Haggerty

First Interview: 20 June 2022

TRACK 1

00.0 Introduction and Interview.

01.39 Clarification of full name and date of birth; Neville John Wilson born in Invercargill. Parents names were John (Jack) and Eva (Hart) Wilson. There are five children in the family including one set of twins. Neville, Audrey (1934), Brian (1936), Valda and Valery (1938). When Neville was born the family were living at ROUND HILL GOLDMINE. He clarified that there are two ROUND HILL GOLDMINES, one in Otago and one in Southland, he is referring to the one in Southland. Neville’s, mother’s father was the manager of the Goldmine. John (Jack) was a general labourer, with Neville saying the main reason he was there was for the gold.

03.52 The family then moved to GARFIELD, second township of OREPUKI, when Neville was about one year old. Neville advises that OREPUKI has been situated at three different locations with the first being MONKEY ISLAND. Explains location of GARFIELD. When gold was found at this location, including under houses, the town was then relocated to where it is today. 05.26 In OREPUKI’S the first location, the miners started mining for gold on the beach, the gold was very fine. When that run out, they headed up the WAIAU RIVER. When they were halfway there, they got to what is now known and MULLANS ROAD and started GARFIELD. Originally there was just bush, the industry there then became the Goldfields.

06.30 OREPUKI has had several streams of industry including gold. Later, where OREPUKI is now, there was a Shale Works, where you got oil from the shale which was used as kerosene (replaced whale oil for lights in Southland). Describes the process of extracting the oil. There were also timber mills (many), sawmills and coal mines (two). At one time the township population was 3200. Neville remembers when electricity came in, around 1938.

09.10 When the Goldfields were at their peak, the miners came from all around the world. Today, OREPUKI and TUATAPERE districts you can tell by the names. Neville descents from the HARTS, who came from Germany. Explains other family names and countries. The Chinese were the first, starting at ROUND HILL. They were gone by the time Neville was born. At one stage there would have been 600 Chinese, they stopped mining due to water access restrictions. They had their own village with their own doctors and lawyers.

11.33 The main trees used in the Timber industry were white pine (kahikatea), Totora, Rimu (red pine). There were many mills, two books have been written about them. Once the timber industry stopped, farming took over. The land owned by the Gold Mining authority required permission before it could be used for farming which was primarily cows (restricted to about 6 each). Other farms included deer, ostrich, goats, and sheep, explains.

14.08 The population, from 1900 to 1930 was 3000. The railway started in 1878 which had a significant effect on OREPUKI including the transportation of timber. Talks about milking cows for the cream which was then put into tins that were taken by train to Invercargill where it was made into butter.

TRACK 2

00.00 After the SHALE WORKS closed, Neville’s father went back to goldmining and sawmills. Rabbits were brought in, in 1940 just before the GREAT WAR. Some people farmed the rabbit’s making money from them. The government then stepped in, making it illegal to own a rabbit. Initially the rabbits were sold for the fur, later for the meat especially during the GREAT WAR, as rabbit was mainly what they ate.

01.18 Neville’s father, Jack, was 35 years on the Rabbit Board, catching rabbits. The first Rabbit Boards started in the North Island, with OREPUKI being the only one in the South Island. Explains role father played.

02.31 During the same time, Neville’s mother was busy with the five children, under five and undertook dressmaking after self-teaching. She worked as the Librarian for 38 years at the OREPUKI LIBRARY, she was a well-read woman. She was active in the district including MONKEY ISLAND accessibility and facilities built in 1956 and how this was funded through Government Funds. Explains.

06.11 OREPUKI is noticeably quiet now, due to there being no jobs people shifted away. Only one of the three pubs remains. There was an Army Drill Hall on the corner. Neville himself had to shift to Invercargill and learn a trade. The café that is there now, is in Mrs Simpson’s (nee Hurst) old house. Henry Hurst worked for the Government.

08.11 The OREPUKI SCHOOL started in 1872 in GARFIELD. When Neville attended it had shifted (1900) to where OREPUKI is located now. The school went up to Std 6, had three teachers and a ‘Murder House’ (dental clinic). Explains.

10.24 At 16 he would travel into Invercargill by bus for an apprenticeship, where he saved his money for his first car (old Ford) which he then used. Before this he travelled by bus from OREPUKI to INVERCARGILL to high school. Explains. The five children’s occupations explained. Neville’s father worked in Southland all his life apart from when he was 18 years old when he worked at Port Craig.

14.15 Talks about when the circus came to town. The elephants did all the work. Explains.

TRACK 3

00.00 Continues to talk about the elephants and remembers at about seven years old, two dying after eating ‘toot’ which was a poisonous plant near the railway line. In addition to elephants, there were tigers. People with big families did not have the money to go.

01.42 Following the passing of Neville’s fathers, his mother stayed on in OREPUKI for one year and then moved into INVERCARGILL. She had wanted to move earlier, but his father wouldn’t’ shift.

Second Interview: 26 June 2022

TRACK 4

00.00 Introduction to second session.

TRACK 5

00.00 RECREATION after school and in the holidays involved playing rugby or basketball locally. The rugby at the local grounds was always crowded. A couple of times a year a Sports Day was held, with people coming from all around the area. They played at the sports grounds, other activities included wood chopping and grass cycling. The pavilion there was built by volunteer labour, including Neville. Across from the pavilion, there were bowls and women’s basketball. The men had the pub, the women did not get out much but there was a WDF. Saturday night dancing, however, there was a shortfall of men. Explains. Regular demonstrations of the haka were given by a local. Explains. Movies on most Saturday nights. Recalls one particular instance of a scary movie ‘Hunchback of Notre Dame’. Explains.

08.40 Recalls a story about an aircushion that stopped the movie after halftime. Phylis Popham has the shop next door to the picture theatre. There was always a seat reserved for Phyllis on the ‘women’s side’, and the aircushion was placed on her seat as ‘a joke’. Explains.

10.43 Recalls a story about a cop (police officer) at a Saturday dance night where beer had been poured into a ginger ale bottle. Explains.

TRACK 6

00.00 Referencing a book; looking at photos of the three original pubs that were in existence at the time. Double stored buildings with 30 rooms each. Patrons would move between pubs after having been kicked out by the publicans for having had too much drink. Explains.

00.56 OREPUKI had a pipe band. Recalls a story about five foreigners who did not drink in the bar, they would fill sugar sacks up and take it back to where they lived. Explained. It was only the men folk in the streets in the weekends. Talk about the responsibilities of women at that time, Neville remembers his ‘Grandma Wilson doing washing all of the time, all by hand.’

03.01 There were three churches in OREPUKI, Neville’s family were not ‘church going people’. Although the Wilson Family came straight from IRELAND, and being CATHOLIC, they never went to any church. No Girl Guides or Boys Brigades at the time. Neville’s three sisters got married in three different churches in OREPUKI.

03.45 When Neville was young, Christmas Days involved work (milking cows) in the morning and at the end of the day. He would help with the Christmas Dinner, setting up the table etc. Dinner would be inside at a big table and sometime relations from INVERCARGILL would join. Other times of the year you would not see them, as everyone was too busy working. Recalls that his father would come home from the Sawmills on a Saturday morning and return on Sunday afternoon, you never saw him all during the week. This was during the War, they were man powered, ‘You had to go where the Government put you, you had to do it even if you didn’t like it’. Otherwise, you would be rounded up and put in jail.

05.13 This was a busy time for his mother, being a sole parent during the week. Reflected on a list at the back door ‘good and bad’ for the children. Explains. Punishment was dealt by the father using a razor/leather strap. Explains. Recalls a time when his brother misbehaved and ran off. Explains.

07.43 Celebrations were mainly; Christmas, Sports Day and when the Circus came. Birthdays were low key, with a small present. During the war it was a treat to get a banana or an orange. Unsure how these were obtained, everything was on coupons. Everything was rationed. The same at Christmas time, a lot of fruit from Santa Claus.

09.20 His mother had a vegetable garden, everything was grown. When ‘pop’ came home from work in the weekends, he’d spend his time digging the garden. It was his mother that did the planting (vegetables). They always had food on the table. Being close to the ocean they had fish and shellfish. When he was older, they also had venison. With his father being a foreman on the Rabbit Board, he’d kill them but wasn’t fussed on eating them. His mother and grandma (paternal) would cook them up. Grandfather Wilson was married three to four times (13 children between marriages), she was the last one he married. She became a widower at 38, she had to look after herself, no such thing as Government help just some help from the district putting in money to help Widows. He remembers that she shifted all the time, living in between six to eight different houses most likely due to being kicked out after the money ran out.

11.52 Things were tough during the war years, everything was in short supply. Neville remembers when the radio came out, about the same time, 1938. He can remember ‘old Churchill’ speaking (he was about seven), making the announcement they were going to war. That is when they (Government) bought in ‘manpower’. For womenfolk that were brought up on a farm, they made you work on a farm, whether you liked it or not. Quite a few people ‘went bush’, but the cops got them in the end. Neville does not remember the young men going off to war, but he does remember them coming back in 1946. When they came back, they got married to the local girls. He did not see any effects on the men from the war, physical or mental. It was a tough time, could not get meat, matches, butter, cheese, sugar. You got ‘so many’ coupons per week, and once they were used that was it. TRACK 7

00.00 Families with four children got more coupons than two children. When the twin girls arrived, the family would have gotten more milk and butter. The family did not really need it as his mother would make her own butter and they had their own milk, she was industrious. They killed their own lambs for meat.

00.58 Neville recalls he walked everywhere. His father did get a bike when he was ‘man powered’ to work at the TUATAPERE SAWMILL and the government bought him a bike which was brought out from England. Due to the scarcity of rubber, he was only entitled to one set of tyres a year, which he had to sign for. He had to travel 30 miles to get to work. He did manage to get a ride with someone who owned a car.

02.18 The community enjoyed sports days. Recalls Mrs Herman Sorenson, a registered nurse, she would stand on the sideline of rugby games in case of any injury, this wasn’t often required. Closest doctor was TUATAPERE, initially a female and then Dr Elder a male who was in practice for 40 years. For urgent attention, a doctor would come from RIVERTON, there was a hospital there. Neville’s siblings were born in RIVERTON. Neville recalls he was born at ST HELENS in INVERCARGILL, in NELSON STREET. At the time Neville’s Grandfather owned the Gold Mine and ‘splashed out’ paying for Neville birth at ST HELENS for the first born only. 05.24 Neville remembers his grandfather was very stern. He died in hospital from Miners Disease following two leg amputations. Miners Disease resulted from living your life wearing gumboots all day only taking them off to go to bed, this would cut off the circulation in your feet. Neville was at his grandfather’s side when he passed, he was 15 years old. His Grandfather had been 42 years as Mine Manager. Neville believes that where is Grandfathers’ farm is, that there is still gold buried there somewhere (stashed away). Neville reflects on some of his grandfather’s purchases. In later years, he bought a 1938 Chevrolet (American) car, two years later he took a trip to FIJI even though he had the most ‘beat up looking farm’ (implying the gold had been used for these purchases). Neville’s grandfathers name is Fred. Fred (his mother’s father) had been brought out to NEW ZEALAND as a child, from ENGLAND. The family name was HART (used to have an ‘e’ at the end), which is GERMAN.

08.08 Neville’s fathers’ father was IRISH. Neville is related to Captain Howell who was Strict English. He has Māori ancestry from CENTRE ISLAND. The interviewer comments that Neville is ‘RIVERTON ROYALTY’.

08.36 ENTERTAINMENT. Neville reflects that you ‘made up your own fun’. Bike (push) racing was introduced following a couple of residents owning a bike. This resulted in 20-30 participating in bike racing. No swimming baths back then, they would walk to MONKEY ISLAND and swim there, at the lagoon. They would walk there from OREPUKI when it was low tide. The family would also go there for a picnic and ‘mussel’. Later, he and his sister would not eat the mussels or paua there due to the proximity to the cemetery. Explains. Neville built his own boat (14-foot, plywood) and would go fishing in the weekends. He obtained an outboard motor for it, explains.

12.00 When Neville was a child there was a Haberdashery Shop which hasn’t long been pulled down. Explains.

14.00 Neville owned two sections at MONKEY ISLAND, and he was going to build but this was not allowed. No grey water or sewage was to go into the bay. He was unable to gain a permit. Lynn Lloyd owned a section next door and applied for a permit for a boat shed.

Third Interview: 6 August 2022

TRACK 8

00.00 Introduction.

01.30 Neville’s father was John Wilson, his father was Joe Wilson from COUNTY TYRONE. Neville’s mother was Eva Grace (Hart) Wilson she was the Great Granddaughter of George Howell from RIVERTON. Eva’s mothers name was Grace Howell. Eva’s father, George was the son of Captain John Howell and Kohi Kohi,

02.30 Based on ‘hear say’ Neville talks further about John Howell and Kohi Kohi. Asked how he came to RIVERTON Neville explains. Captain Howell came from EASTBOURNE in ENGLAND at the age of 12, whaling on the east coast of AUSTRALIA as a Captain. He then whaled for Johnny Jones of WAIKOUAITI. After a few years, he bought out Johnny Jones from RIVERTON and ran RIVERTON by himself. He had two children (boy and girl) to Kohi Kohi. When Kohi Kohi passed, he remarried and had a further 17 children. Unsure of the exact year of Captain Howell’s marriage to Kohi Kohi but based on the birth of George in 1838, he estimates 1837. This marriage was not a legal, it was ‘Māori style’, this was common with all the whalers at the time. With the second wife he got solemnized up at WAIKOUAITI Church.

04.44 Neville does not know too much about Kohi Kohi. He was given a photo from the Riverton Museum of Kohi Kohi but the lady in the picture does not represent that Kohi Kohi as she was a full-blooded Māori, and the lady is not. Kohi Kohi. came from CENTRE ISLAND (out here on the Straight), another name is RARATOKA. Kohi Kohi’s father, Paku, came from KAIAPOI to RARATOKA. Kohi Kohi had a large dowry, from being in a family of a Chief. Neville was told from Edmund Howell who owned ‘this’ cottage, they buried Kohi Kohi back on her home ground at CENTRE ISLAND, buried facing towards COLAC BAY. Kohi Kohi’s two children with Captain Howell, were George and Sarah Anne also known as Kerianna. He presumes that when they got married, they lived in ‘this’ cottage, here at RIVERTON. George has left a note recording that, when he was born, he was brought over from CENTRE ISLAND to RIVERTON in whale boat to the ‘new house’, with there being only one new house, ‘this’ cottage. Although not guaranteed, the house was most likely built from timber bought over from AUSTRALIA. Explains the construction of the cottage in relation to the terrain at the time.

08.55 When Captain Howell and Kohi Kohi married, they went to AUSTRALIA. He has tried to investigate any information on this with the help of his relatives that live in AUSTRALIA, but he hasn’t found anything (from Sydney newspapers). It is possible they brought some wood back with them to build the cottage. The floor of the cottage is AUSTRALIAN HARDWOOD, not available in NEW ZEALAND at the time. Explains. The cottage has been reported to be the third oldest wooden cottage still standing, with the oldest in Southland being the stone house on STEWART ISLAND (1834). 10.26 From Neville’s findings (on record), when Kohi Kohi passed, Captain Howell left for STEWART ISLAND. This is where he met and married Caroline Brown from CODFISH ISLAND. Following the wedding they came back to ‘here’. While on STEWART ISLAND, Captain Howell’s half-sisters, Steven’s looked after the first two children. It hasn’t been proven, but the thought is that Kohi Kohi may have died during the childbirth of the daughter, which was common back then. Sarah Anne was born in 1841, George would have been three.

12.14 The half-sisters who looked after the children when Kohi Kohi passed, and Captain Howell was on STEWART ISLAND were the Paulin’s and Steven’s. The Pauline’s (male) had come out from England and married the Steven’s girl. Mrs Pauline had her first child in RIVERTON, Mary who married a Stuck (old RIVERTON family name).

13.06 During the 1830’s, 1840’s, Neville believes the town of RIVERTON would have been based around (here), the edge of the Estuary. This area was known as APARIMA. According to Neville’s mothers’ ‘book’, Howell referred to this area as being ‘his little hometown’, with the Māori calling it APARIMA.

TRACK 9

00.00 It appears that the names used around the RIVERTON area may have been named after places that Captain Howell lived and worked in while in AUSTRALIA as they names are also of townships in Australia; RIVERTON, COLAC (BAY), THORNBURY. Explains why he looked into this.

01.28 Neville believes that John Howell would have been over on STEWART ISLAND for about two years. While there he met Caroline (Kararaina) Brown, daughter of the Brown’s from CODFISH ISLAND, of Māori descent. Thomas Brown was the brother of Sarah Anne, and possibly worked for Captain Howell. John and Caroline had 17 children. John’s half-brother, William Steven’s had 21 children with two wives. ‘With all of these children they started off a district’.

03.02 The little village, with the cottage (here) was the KIAKA, which was their home. He goes onto explain that PA is their home but not their permanent home. They would travel around living for a while. The PA as a rule is normally fortified, whereas KIAKA, there are no fortifications.

03.37 Neville’s believes that George and Sarah Anne lived with their new mother, Caroline and John. George was sent to AUSTRALIA to learn some of his history. He could speak FRENCH, ENGLISH and MĀORI. He was taught by Frenchmen while over in AUSTRALIA.

04.20 Caroline and John lived in the cottage when first married and then moved into a single levelled house on PALMERSTON STREET, RIVERTON. It has since been pulled down and replaced with Dr Trotter’s two-story brick house. John stopped whaling. He built EASTBOURNE, a large house in THORNBURY named after where he came from in ENGLAND. He then shifted and built at SUNNYSIDE, BLACKMOUNT. The next build and shift were between MOSSBURN and TE ANUA and then FAIRLIGHT after that. The houses that John lived in were EASTBOURNE, FAIRLIGHT and the two in RIVERTON, the others he just visited. The houses were all wooden apart from FAIRLIGHT which had stones and dirt to keep the warmth. This one was burn down. The one at SUNNYSIDE he doesn’t think he had much to do with. Neville visited it, the old house was gone but you could see where it had been. He saw a photo of it, so knows what it looked like, that it was the same style as ‘this’.

07.20 Neville reports that after whaling, John was making his money from farms, he made and worked from. He used the land from his marriage to Kohi Kohi, this remained as Māori land. He probably used money acquired from marrying a wealthy woman. John owned six to seven stations, all ‘up this end’. Some of it was Government land, some was Māori land, and some he had himself. Neville thinks he must have been a good ‘wheeler dealer’ but isn’t sure how he paid for it all.

09.00 John’s last place of residence in NEW ZEALAND was at FAIRLIGHT STATION. He was taken to AUSTRALIA, where he died of cancer and old age, at 64 years of age. Caroline lived on to her 89th year. Everything had been left to her. She wasn’t allowed to remarry. The money was to stay with her until she died, but after a number of years, those that looked after the money provided Caroline with a yearly allowance (until her death) and the rest was split between the remaining 13 children. George received a 1/13 share of the money.

10.30 George was based in RIVERTON as a farmer probably utilising Captain Howell’s money. He also owned the cottage (where they are now) and a contracting business with horses. George did a lot of work in INVERCARGILL on the roads. He also done contracting over in MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA. He put up the big stone wall around the MELBOURNE JAIL. He then went down sealing with a boat from STEWART ISLAND to AUCKLAND ISLANDS, they found castaways on a boat and brought them back. There is a photo of this at the museum. George had a house up on the hill at the LONGWOODS with a fair bit of land, this is where he died. Neville believes that George used any money he had to buy Gold Mines up on the LONGWOOD HILLS, but that he lost money on this.

12.15 Sarah Anne had married William Cameron from ENGLAND, and they had thirteen children, who are now all over the world. Sarah and her husband looked after the Light House on CENTRE ISLAND (her home place), and they also had a farm. When William died, Sarah moved to RIVERTON and then she and two to three daughters moved up to GISBORNE where she died. There were about 30 grandchildren between the two. Neville goes through some of the names of the children that survived from John Howell’s second marriage, as many died. Charlies died, Caroline died (19 years old), John died (at a young age), Frederick William died, Ann Maria died, Thomas Theophilus lived at THORNBURY, Matilda Jane died (very young) ….

TRACK 10

00.00 Mary Elizabeth died (mid-teens), Victoria died, Beatrice died. Louisa Emmeline, she has the line to Selwyn Toogood. Robert Edward, he had five or six children. Blanche Ada, who married twice had six to eight children. James Leslie Theadore, although never married there are a couple of descendants. Gretchen died. Ethal May married twice and had five or six children. Gertrude Frances married a man from THORNBURY and had two or three children. Reiterated that nearly 50% of the children from the second marriage died.

01.25 From the ones that survived, they married locally. At a family reunion the following names were represented; LEADER’S, BATES, AUSTIN’S, WHITERY’S which are all well-known names around the district with there also being street name associations. The first family reunion took place in 1968, with Neville’s mother being ‘in charge’ of that. Neville vaguely remembers it; it was widely attended. The next one was in 2006. This was at the time of the 150’s birthday of RIVERTON as Captain Howell started it. Neville was Chairman of the committee; it took 2 years from start to finish. There were issues around money, making it difficult for families with children to travel from around the country.

03.57 The committee started off with six. They decided to put 50 pounds in each to be able to pay for any bills. Explains. Over 500 people attended the weekend, with the main venue being the top room of the Workingmen’s’ Club.

04.59 There were people that wanted to attend that were not descendants of John and his two wives. The secretary, Robin Thomson, got a phone call from someone at the top of the North Island. Explains. The Steven’s also wanted to attend but did not meet the family requirement of being descendants from the two wives. Explains. Limitations were also required to restrict numbers for venue hire.

07.06 The weekend festivities included the get-together at the club in INVERCARGILL on Friday night, Saturday night was dance at THORNBURY, Sunday morning was Church in INVERCARGILL, and Sunday afternoon was out at the Racecourse.

07.39 The stone tablet laid for Captain Howell on the far side of the river was done most likely at the 1968 reunion.

08.07 He (Captain Howell) didn’t only start RIVERTON off he nearly started the South Island with there not being many places then. There had been talk of RIVERTON being the capital at one point but due to the bar in the water he couldn’t do what he wanted with the entrance by putting a break water in. During John’s time there was no mayorship, but he had joined Otago along with Southland before they split up. He brought in horses and sheep, and he is attributed to bringing in the rabbits, although there is no proof of that. Neville believes John had a pretty good life and enjoyed ‘his booze’. There is mention of a few fist fights, particularly on the old sailing ships and that he had large hands. John was only 12 years old at the time.

10.50 When Neville’s mother was 12 years old, she had to take over the home following her mother’s death from ‘the heart’. She may have had to learn to cook. Explains. She was always a good reader which led onto being an author. She had determination, often winning arguments with her husband.

12.59 She moved from OREPUKI to RIVERTON when her husband died in 1974. Neville built the house ‘here’ for her. She had already bought the land in 1973, with not much having been done to it apart from Neville’s father putting a fence around it. An old farmer from OREPUKI had owned it for about 20 years and the old cottage was decrepitated inside and out. It was musty and needed to be cleaned up. A stable was pulled down for the new house. George inherited everything after his father died. Discussions start about what date it was when they decided to renovate the old cottage. Started working backwards to work out the date from when his mother passed away in 1991. Neville knocked off work in 1992, 1993.

TRACK 11

00.00 Neville started renovating the cottage in about 1992, 1993, it was his project as he went onto ‘Superann’. At this time the cottage wasn’t known as Kohi Kohi’s Cottage. It was his mother’s idea to name the cottage. There is now a trust that has been set up after Murray Mouat heard about it and went to see Neville. A group of people got together and started it up. The idea was that they would do all the renovations, at this point in time it is under half-finished due to funding issues. Conversation shifts to current day health system, explains.

03.50 Interviewer seeks clarity about an earlier conversation prior to recording where they had been talking about when Neville’s mother faced a judge in relation to the Māori land Court to show Kohi Kohi’s genealogy traces back over 61 generations. The judge told his mother and niece this couldn’t be correct. She retaliated. Explains.

06.00 Conversation changes to Neville’s own life with him coming up to his 90th birthday. He reflects on a recent meeting with his friendship club. Explains.

07.00 Interviewer thanks Neville for his time and hopes there will be a resolution for the cottage and the hope that it will be able to be used by the public. He has been maintaining it over the past 20 to 30 years and has faced issues with Council Regulations. Talks about the Historic Places Trust (Southland), he had been on the committee for 5 years at the same time as Lloyd Esler. Overnight this was changed due to Government changes. This is when the Southland Heritage Building Trust was established, and Neville stood down due to a conflict of interest. Explains. Marion Miller was on the committee, Maureen Fox (since died) and her husband Pat, Russel Beck (from the museum), Mick Heslin (architect). Talks about how he found out how people are related and that this can be common in that area.

11.08 Talks about the Riverton Streets and Boundary. Explains.

11.55 When the KIAKA was on the east side of the river, the burial grounds were over towards the seaside. Neville had found bones there. Talks about burials at the time the college was built. Explains. Also takes about Chinese headstones and graves. Explains.

14.14 Neville has had a long connection with the local museum starting in 1983 after he finished his mother’s home. He completed maintenance in weekends only on the building. Interview finishes mid-sentence.

INTERVIEW ENDS