H0498: INTERVIEW WITH NGARITA DIXON

DATE: 3RD DECEMBER 2008

INTERVIEWER: PAM SMITH

[NOTE: THIS IS A TRANSCRIPT NOT AN ABSTRACT WITH TIMINGS]

CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR EARLIER LIFE? ABOUT YOUR PARENTS?

My father along with his brother GEORGE bought the BAKERY here in TUATAPERE from a JOHN HINCHCLIFF. JOHN HINCHCLIFF was here for some years and in 1922 he sold the BAKERY to my father. His BROTHER GEORGE'S family lived in LAWRENCE and then they came down too and they continued baking here until 1954. His brother GEORGE had three children BLOSSOM, GORDON AND ELSIE.

DID THEY LIVE HERE IN TUATAPERE TOO?

Yes.

DID ONE OF THEM WRITE A BOOK?

Yes that was GORDON. "UP THE WAIAU."

YOUR FATHER'S NAME?

Was DONALD DAVIDSON MCLEOD. DD. MCLEOD.

WERE THEY SCOTTISH?

Yes the father was. There were five MCLEODS. Three went to AUSTRALIA and two to NEW ZEALAND. I would say it was the late 1800s they came out here. My father must have been born about 1892 because my mother was about that age.

WHO WAS ALL IN YOUR FAMILY?

Just me. I had a step sister. My mother had been married before and she lived in the NORTH ISLAND and came back down to live with her sister when her husband was killed in the FIRST WORLD WAR. A sister MARJORY BATEY and she married BILL AUSTIN.

WHAT WAS TUATAPERE LIKE WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD?

There were five men’s outfitters. BRASS BROTHERS and all those people were out here. There was a man named BARNEY SMITH who used to work for BRASS BROTHERS and he walked with a limp. But I can remember going to see TITANIA PALACE in INVERCARGILL which had been brought out from ENGLAND. It was a big miniature display in a glass case at H &J SMITHS. We had to leave here at six o'clock in the morning and walk to the RAILWAY STATION and we didn't have footpaths like we've got today, go to INVERCARGILL for the day and come back at night and walk back home from the railway which was at the far end of the town from where we live now. My father came here in 1922 but he married in 1927. I was born in 1928. He built the house on the land next door to this house. This was the original sports ground and there is even the tin shed up at the back of the section and that was where the boxing ring used to be. They would have boxing fights and there was even little bits of tin cut out and little bits of candle sitting in them for the lights. There was no power in the shed. Can you imagine boxing in a room and which I think the whole building was the size of the ring and that was part of the sports ground until they moved to the domain. I actually have a photo, my mother in law gave it to me.

THIS LAND HERE WAS OWNED BY YOUR FATHER THEN AND SO THE OLDER HOUSE WAS OVER THERE?

That is where I was born there

When you married you built this house here?

No we went away to DEAN FOREST for seven years. My father said you can have this land when the mill was coming back to TUATAPERE.

SO WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP YOU WENT TO TUATAPERE SCHOOL?

I went to the PRIMARY SCHOOL and then I was sent away to WAITAKI GIRLS in OAMARU as a full time boarder. Remember this was the war time 1940 and we were not allowed to travel beyond DUNEDIN to come home so I had to stay away for three months. That was horrific for an only child sent away not used to other people, mixing with other people, sharing with other people.

HOW DID YOU MANAGE IT?

I cried. I Cried. (louder).

IT MUST HAVE BEEN TERRIBLE?

Yes it was but I tell you what. You cut the apron strings and I don't get homesick now. I can stand on my own feet. It taught me a big lesson. I only wish now, I only went for the two years and I should have stayed on. At that age you do not see the future. I know now that I should have I have to say that my mother was a very strict disciplinarian it was always "Hold your head up. Hold your shoulders back. There is a T on the end of that word. There is an s there".

Today I appreciate what she did for me. I feel that I can hold my head up at any time.

I think being an only child, people say that must have been terrible, I never felt that I was in competition with anybody I grew up on my own I never had this brother and sister striving. My stepsister was fourteen years older than I was she way ahead of me. She never had any influence. I felt that I don't treat men and women differently. I look at them both. They have different minds. They get to the same results through different pathways. But I don't treat them any differently for I was not brought up to separate the difference in the sexes like that.

WOULD THAT BE UNUSUAL FOR THAT TIME?

Well most of them had more in the family. My parents were 38, 39 when I was born. They were considered old. They might be having children at that age nowadays but in those days that was quite old.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO HAVE A FATHER WHO WAS A BAKER?

Oh, his half day was WEDNESDAY he didn't work on WEDNESDAY. So we always got breakfast in bed on WEDNESDAYS. Normally he went to work by two o’clock in the morning. That had a big influence on our life, on our social life in our house cause he went to bed at seven o'clock. If we laughed or created a noise there would be a knock on the wall "Too much noise I can't sleep." He had to be up and way by two o'clock because the bread had to be baked and he had to be out and away on the van delivering at eight o'clock in the morning. He had to be back at the bake house at four o'clock to prove the dough for the next day. It was just a race. The whole day was just a race.

WHERE WAS THE BAKE HOUSE?

On FERRY ROAD where ROBIN FAULKNER lives now. That was where HINCHCLIFF'S lived. The house has been pulled down now but they had one of the rooms on the front for the shop. I think it was about 1926 when MCLEOD BROS., built the shop where YESTERYEARS is now.

SOUNESS AND LAWRENCE WAS THERE?

Yes that was the original shop built by MCLEOD BROTHERS.

AFTER YOU CAME BACK FROM WAITAKI WHAT DID YOU DO?

I was a dress maker. I had a brilliant teacher at WAITAKI who gave me this interest in sewing. I sewed until I got married.

DID YOU SEW FROM HERE IN TUATAPERE?

Yes I sewed from my mother's front bedroom. I think now what a mess it must have been and how awful it must have been for her with newspaper patterns pinned all over the walls and scraps of material. You know you don't realise at the time what an imposition you put on someone and I think back now and I think "you were an absolute pest!" It must have been awful for her and in the front room. In those days your house was always immaculate and this was the best bedroom in the house and I had taken it over. You think back what a brat you were.

YES BUT SHE WAS PROBABLY DELIGHTED AS YOU WERE HER DAUGHTER?

Yes. She was an interesting woman. She would say. "I felt like death when I wakened up from this morning and I went to golf and came home and I am alright." And she used to walk to SCOTTS HILL for the golf. If they had to do it today they probably wouldn't go.

WHERE IS SCOTTS HILL?

By the cemetery.

OH YES. I KNOW WHERE YOU MEAN.

Yeah and walk home after a game of golf. They were fit.

She used to make her own soap. We used to keep all the fat from the roast meat and she'd boil up in this caustic soda mixture and it used to bubble like a witches cauldron and it was always, "you mustn’t let this boil over." For the fire you used paper as you weren't allowed to let it boil over. You had to pull the paper out very quickly if it got too hot. We had a shelf in the laundry, the wash house as it was called and the soap was always piled up as it had to dry out. You put citronella in it to give it a bit of a smell. It wasn't very nice. You cut big squares out with a great big knife out of this big cauldron of fat that turned into soap.

WHAT SORT OF CLOTHES DID YOU MAKE? SPECIAL OCCASIONS?

People came to me. I made a lot of ball gowns I made children's clothes. You'd go to a dance and you'd see five or six people there and I'd think I made those frocks. You know.

HOW DID YOU MEET YOUR HUSBAND?

At the local dance. He came home from the war and there was ten years between us. I always told him he was chicken stealing.

FROM THE SECOND WORLD WAR? AT A LOCAL DANCE? THAT WOULD BE THE WAY THAT MOST PEOPLE MET?

Yes that was where you met people. You went as a gang of girls. There was always five of us. You went to the dances. You didn't always come home with them (Great laugh).

IN THOSE DAYS WERE THERE A LOT OF DANCES AROUND? A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY?

Oh yes. And there was limited where you went. We went to PAPATOTARA, we went to CLIFDEN, we went to TUATAPERE and occasionally we went to PUKEMAORI. We didn't go anywhere else. We didn't have the means of transport. I mean today they'd say "we'll go to CHRISTCHURCH for a pie and then come back". We walked to the dance and walked home and you always carried your dancing shoes with you. You kept the soles lovely and shiny and slippery.

THERE WERE BANDS?

There was LEONARDS BAND. PAM WILLIAMS. PAM tells me that she used to write down in a notebook how much she got paid for the dances and the first one was my husbands' and my welcome to DEAN FOREST dance.

SO WHEN YOU GOT MARRIED YOU MOVED TO DEAN FOREST?

Yes that was where the mill was. That's where BILL was working. He came back to the mill after the war.

IS HE PART OF LINDSAY AND DIXON?

Yes he was the second youngest son. There was TOM, BILL and GEORGE. As shares in LINDSAY and DIXON’S came on the market the three DIXON’S bought them.

SO WHEN YOU SAID THAT THERE WAS A DANCE TO WELCOME YOU?

The DEAN FOREST had its own hall. It had a water wheel that generated the electricity for the hall. It had its own tennis court.

TELL ME WHERE DEAN FOREST IS. I LIVED HERE AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT IS?

On the road to LAKE HAUROKO there is a turn off to DEAN FOREST. Well we haven't been back thirty and forty years and DARYL KING said come up and see the old place. He took us back and gave us a barbeque tea up there and there was the old concrete tank shed that BILL'S mother and father had built that was going to be the place to hang the sheep in. A cool place but I don't think it ever worked out for that. But that was the only remnants of our house because our house was moved down into DIXON STREET. All those houses were moved out and there were only two slabs of concrete left one was where the old Gardener Diesel that powered the mill sat and the other was for the big circular saws, you know the breaking down bench. That was all that was left of the sawmill. They went there in 1928 as I said we left there the late forties.

SO WHERE DO YOU GO?

You go right up the LILBURN VALLEY.

OH AWAY UP THERE?

Yes away up there. There is a turn off that used to go into WAIROTA STATION. One road went straight on to HAUROKO and this one went into WAIROTA STATION. We were four miles beyond that.

SO MY AUNTY LIVED UP THERE.

What was her name?

SHE MARRIED JACK POTTER.

Oh I know them, one of the children got kicked in the face with a horse. BILL had to take them to the hospital.

HE DIED OF A HEART ATTACK AND LEFT HER WITH ALL THESE CHILDREN.

Oh that's right. Well you had to go past their place and it was scary you know because there were times when they would send me down to get the pay. One day it was snowing and they said, "Oh you can do it," and I had never driven in snow. TOM would send me, down he was a beggar, and the car would run out of water and all sorts of things. I used to say to him, “well once I get the pay don't try and stop me because I'll run over you. (Laughter). I'm not stopping for anybody".

YOU HAD YOUR TWO DAUGHTERS?

I had one while I was living up there and the other one when I moved down to DIXON STREET. NAOMI was born when we lived in DIXON STREET.

WHAT ARE THE GIRLS NAMES?

JOANNE. HELEN JOANNE. She's HELEN JOANNE and that really makes her angry as I should have named her JOANNE as it has caused her lots of strife having JOANNE as a second name and calling her by that. And the other one is NAOMI MARGARET and she lives in AUCKLAND.

JOANNE LIVES LOCALLY?

PAHIA. She married IAN ANDERSON. He started with a shearing gang. I remember BILL when they came and said they were going to get married and BILL said, "What are you going to do?" and JOANNE said, " I am going to cook for the shearers," and BILL said, " GOD help the shearers".(Laughter). He had no faith in his daughters cooking. As it turned out, she is a beautiful cook. You know, can handle anything.

WHAT INFLUENCES IN YOUR EARLY LIFE IMPACT ON WHO YOU ARE TODAY? YOU HAVE TALKED A WEE BIT ABOUT IT WHEN YOU SAID ABOUT YOUR MOTHER.

Oh, and even my father. When I was nineteen we wanted to get engaged and get married and he said no wait until you are twenty one and we did. Even though it meant that BILL was thirty one when we got married. You know my parents were very strict. We didn't have a car until the late 1936, 1938 we didn't have a radio, we didn't have a telephone. My father wouldn't have a telephone in the house. He didn't want anyone ringing up for a loaf of bread when he was home resting. Yet they were very hospitable people. The pipe band would come and play on NEW YEAR’S EVE and trek through the house and they would give them cake and wine. My father made wine. He was into elderberry flower and elderberry and parsnip. He had all this wine stacked in lovely jars they were all in baskets and they were all under the tank stand. I remember my COUSIN telling me years later that they used to sneak in and have nips out of them unbeknown to anyone (Laughter) All this wine and the BANK MANAGER'S WIFE came once and they had to carry her home. Someone on either side of her.

TELL ME, YOU MENTIONED THAT THE PIPE BAND CAME. WAS THAT A REGULAR THING?

On NEW YEAR’S EVE they went first footing and everybody followed them. They picked up one from the house and everybody followed, then they'd go over to DOCTOR DODD'S house and move round and they did the whole village.

THIS WENT ON FOR MANY YEARS. YES I CAN REMEMBER THAT?

I can too. I think the war might have finished all that. They would be away.

I CAN REMEMBER THEM DOING SOMETHING SIMILAR. MAYBE NOT TO THE SAME EXTENT IN THE SIXTIES.

Can you? I have a feeling they would be on auto pilot by the time they got to the last house.

FIRST FOOTING. WE HAD FIRST FOOTING WHEN I WAS GROWING UP. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

Yes. It was a social thing

WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

It would be the SCOTTISH. SCOTTISH TRADITION handed down.

DO YOU SEE TUATAPERE INFLUENCED BY THE SCOTTISH TRADITIONS AND CULTURE?

Well I don't think it is the same now. People have moved in and things have changed. People do not give up their time as willingly and as freely as they did in those days. TUATAPERE was built on volunteerism. If there is such a word as volunteerism.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT HAS CHANGED?

Oh. The biggest influence has been the closing down of the forestry. That impacted on TUATAPERE. And it’s still impacting. We haven't grown through it yet. It took whole strata of society out the Mums and Dads and the kids at school. They had to leave to get work.

TELL ME HOW IT HAPPENED. WHY DID THE FORESTRY CLOSE DOWN?

It was a GOVERNMENT decision. They decided that they would put all the FORESTRY that was left they would put it into the DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION.

AND DID EVERYBODY AGREE WITH THAT?

No. There were big protests and we had LANGE come down and say you don't rely on FORESTRY anymore TOURISM is the answer but they gave us no money to develop TOURISM. That's why the HUMP TRACK came about because we had to develop something. I think it was MURRAY MCAULEY at the time and he said don't start the track first; the first thing you have to do is save your historical facts first which were THE VIADUCTS. So we called a meeting and I chaired a meeting and it’s one of the best meetings I have ever been to. I have never known so many people to volunteer. They all wanted to be part of restoring THE VIADUCTS. It was just the right time as WAP TEMPLETON tried to do this about ten years prior to save THE VIADUCTS and it didn't work. Yet we called this meeting, we got the SOUTHLAND DISTRICT COUNCIL to help us, and people were standing up from the main body of the floor saying I want to be part of this. It was the most thrilling meeting I have ever been to because the atmosphere was electric. There was even a MRS CRAIG there. She was a wife of one of the CRAIG'S from PORT CRAIG. They just loved it.

CAN YOU REMEMBER WHEN THAT WAS? 1970S - 1980S?

I would have to look that up.

WHEN YOU SPOKE OF THE PROMOTIONS COMMITTEE WAS THAT A GROUP OF LOCAL PEOPLE? WHO INITIATED THAT?

That started from a group I think JOHN FRASER, KEITH EDGERTON and somebody else were talking about it in the hotel. They decided that after the FORESTRY was dead we needed to do something and they started this up. And that's how we got the SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE. All these ideas came from this promotions group. The SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE, the saving of THE VIADUCTS and the HUMP TRACK and now the promotions are working on a cycle trail on the west side of the WAIAU between here and TE ANAU. It is still in the marshmallow stage but it will go because it has the potential to create a big circle that will join up with the RAIL TRAIL. It will come, it can go round the coast or go through the LONGWOODS. There is a big difference between mountain bikes and cycle tracks, we could put a mountain bike trail over the LONGWOODS there is enough bush roads in there that we could join up and not without too much bother. And we have biked from RIVERTON to INVERCARGILL on the ORETI sands. It takes two and half hours. We have done that recently. That's how we know. We can get them to TE ANAU and they have to work on to QUEENSTOWN and then on to WANAKA and from WANAKA they'd come down to the RAIL TRAIL and then you've got the circuit you see then you'd come down to INVERCARGILL. People would only do one section and the next year they'd come down and do the next section. What people in the tourist industry have to realize, we found this out with the SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE. You have to keep passing people on. You mustn’t try and capture them and keep them there, you've got to keep their interest in the place but pass them on and get the next town a dollar. If you don't do this we will all going to fall over and that's how the SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE works. It really revived TUATAPERE and brought people to WESTERN SOUTHLAND, We are cut out because people come to Dunedin and they go to QUEENSTOWN. They may come down to TE ANAU but our little triangular corner there's RIVERTON TUATAPERE and OTAUTAU and OHAI and NIGHTCAPS. No one wanted to know and yet we've got some of the most beautiful scenery, we've got beautiful beaches.

THE SOUTHERN SCENIC ROUTE HAS REALLY OPENED THAT UP?

It has. It has and it's developed the CATLINS and the CATLINS don't realize that they should be pushing the people on too because if we're pushing them on they should be pushing them back this way and then it feeds right through to TE ANAU. It's very important. It was such a success it originally only went to BALCLUTHA and TE ANAU and since then we've had DUNEDIN saying we want to be part of this and so they've joined in. Then MILFORD SOUND they want to be part of it too. It actually starts at MILFORD SOUND and goes to DUNEDIN. That basically was JOHN FRASER'S idea because TUATAPERE is just a little SAWMILLING TOWNSHIP that is only one hundred years old. We're young. We really have nothing to offer but were saying come this way and look at the coast lines. Look at the MĀORI history down at COLAC BAY and COSY NOOK and did you know that the SOLANDER ISLAND out there in the ocean is an extinct volcano. It is the same age as MOUNT TARANAKI and all that coastline at Cosy Nook you can go down there and see the volcanic action. There is quite thick lots of quartz’s in big lines and they tell me that's the magna chamber thrown up from the centre of the earth. There are beautiful examples of pillar lava.

GOODNESS. THEY DON'T TALK ABOUT IT.

No, But it’s there. It's just as exciting as any other place. When you look at the WAIAU it was the road way for the MĀORI to come up and down in their canoe. When COCHRAN’S in the LILBURN VALLEY ploughed up their paddock just below where the old mill in the MOTU was. They found these adzes and other things and brown pits where they had their fires. That's where we want to take the cycle track as we will put in interpretive panels all the way up there showing this is what was there and make it an interesting place.

THERE WEREN'T TOO MANY MĀORI SETTLEMENTS AROUND HERE. THE MĀORI TRAVELLED THROUGH BUT DIDN'T SETTLE THOUGH? WHAT FAMILIES HERE?

No. No settlements. ACKER’S and BEATON’S that lived down the PAPATOTARA. HARRIS'S that worked at the mill were NORTH ISLAND MĀORI.

WHEN YOUR CHILDREN GROWING UP IN THE FIFTIES. WAS IT THAT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP. WHAT SHOPS?

It had changed. What used to be bare paddocks on this side of us here now all the state houses were built in the late 30s. The whole place had changed. That was the year of the big snow storm the year the houses were built as I remember the builder building me a sledge and GUS NICOL taking us up to SCOTTS HILL to sledge down this huge snow storm it must have been a big snow storm as everybody was on SCOTTS HILL with pieces of iron pieces of tin and I had my sledge.

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, THAT BETWEEN THE TIME THAT YOU WERE YOUNG AND YOUR CHILDREN THERE WAS A LOT OF HOUSING BUILT?

Oh yes. So you see the population went up to nearly a thousand. It’s down to just under six hundred now I believe.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BECAUSE OF SAWMILLING?

Sawmilling would have been the biggest contribution. They tell me there were thirty sawmills around here. You would have to look up ALAN TEMPLETON'S book. But you also want to remember the other thing that was done by all volunteers was the road into HAUROKO. That was a big thing for TUATAPERE.

IT WAS TOO. I CAN REMEMBER WALKING INTO FROM THE END OF THE ROAD IN THE FIFTIES.

You know this is how silly you are when you are young. I remember thinking oh they're going to put that road in there. What do they want a road for? Let them walk it. Now I love driving in there. No longer can I walk. I have to say age does do something for you. You get a better perspective of things.

MY DAD AND HIS BROTHER TOOK THE FIRST BOAT INTO LAKE HAUROKO IN THE 1920S 30S. THEY TOOK IT IN BY HORSES.

Did they? That is a scary lake. I've been with JOHAN down the WAIRAHIRI and coming back that lake had changed so much it was quite scary. This was TUATAPERE'S playground. They had so many places to go, the men hunting and shooting. We had ANDY GRANT the POLICEMAN here say, "where else in NEW ZEALAND could you within ten minutes shoot a pig, hunt a deer or catch a fish?" He said it's a fantastic place to live in. We had a fantastic beach but that has changed. MERIDIAN won't accept that has come about by the lowering of the water in the WAIAU. That point is still debatable. It is quite a stony beach now and there is lot of erosion and the road has to be changed, it ran under the cliffs at the ROWALLAN they now having to put it over the cliffs. It only stands to reason that if you lost six hundred cubic metres of water that swirled round and protected the shoreline if you take it out this is what it does. Everybody knows the effect of lowering the WAIAU except MERIDIAN.

THE CHILDREN GROWING UP IN TUATAPERE AND IT WAS THRIVING. LOTS OF SHOPS, THEY WENT TO SCHOOL?

I sent them away to boarding school after my experience. There was eight years between my two girls so they actually grew up as single children. They had to learn to adjust to people too. They were sent to COLUMBA in DUNEDIN. I don't know if they were particularly grateful but the eldest one was very shy. It did affect her. She found it very hard but the youngest was very grateful as she went on to do ultrasound after she did her radiography. The day she graduated she turned up to do ultrasound and that was the second course that went through in NEW ZEALAND so the last thirty years she has been doing ultrasound and now she has a very good position in AUCKLAND. Actually she is on the board of examiners for AUSTRALASIA.

You know when you were here the other day and we were talking about sounds and noises when you go back I miss the sounds of the dairy factory. The hissing of the steam and the clanking of the cans and JENKINS delivered the milk in those days on a horse and a little gig type thing.

IT WAS JUST OVER THE BRIDGE?

Yes. The factory is DT KINGS now and that was the factory. That was another business that employed people, the DAIRY FACTORY. LINDSAYS and DIXONS supplied the polygons for the cheeses to go away in.

IN TUATAPERE YOU HAD THE DOCTOR. TELL ME ABOUT THE DOCTOR?

DOCTOR RITA GILLIES was the first one and she married PANTON GARDNER but she died. Actually there is a scholarship at the UNIVERSITY OF OTAGO TO DOCTOR RITA GILLIES. She built that house in BIRCH STREET that was the doctor's house. Then DOCTOR DODDS came. He delivered me. He had three kids. There was SHIRLEY and MARGARET and FOSSIT. I'm in touch with SHIRLEY and MARGARET. They planted some daffodil bulbs in the cemetery that were named after DOCTOR DODDS. They brought them down and they have flowered. There was an article in the paper. He died in the late 30s. Then DOCTOR ELDER came. He was a legend in his own right. I always said to him that when he came as a locum he used to flip SHIRLEY DODDS over with his hands but he never did to me and as an eight nine year old I was so jealous. He settled in for fifty years. We have a road into the domain named after him. We have a BURSARY TRUST which we have seventy three thousand dollars and we want it to get up to one hundred thousand and it will be there for perpetuity. It's for any TERTIARY EDUCATION for his catchment, RIVERTON, TUATAPERE, OTAUTAU. We have to remain integrated. These three towns, this triangle have to remain together if we're going to succeed. Then we have the AMENITIES TRUST. We were given eight hundred thousand as part of compensation for MERIDIAN going for their water consent. The cheque was drawn 1996. I am the chair. MERIDIAN gave us a million but two hundred had to go into the TUATAPERE water supply. From 1996 to year 2000 we didn't call for applications and it went up to the million dollars. From then on we let the applications go. We only spend the interest. So much has to be added on to the capital every year. The TRUST is for any NON PROFIT ORGANISATION IN TUATAPERE, FOOTBALL CLUB, PLAYCENTRE and this year we are going to let non-profit organisations apply to THE TRUST for the connection fee for the sewerage. We think it will cost about three thousand for each one. CRITERIA within TUATAPERE UTILITIES. They gave one million to the IWI, WAIAU HABITAT and FISHERIES TRUST and they developed RAKATU with their money and are developing WHITEBAIT PONDS down at the mouth of the WAIAU. They are spending their money wisely on habitats. RAKATU is a big swampy area they are bringing back to wildlife. We have given out nearly two hundred thousand now since year two thousand. That's a big help to a lot of little clubs. They wanted to establish a PLAYCENTRE up at EASTERN BUSH as they had a lot of young people and although it was out of the area it was in the trust deed that we could use our discretion. Those people shop in TUATAPERE. You help them.

TELL ME ABOUT THE MEDICAL TRUST?

I was on the AREA HEALTH BOARD at the time. I could see that I wasn't going to win the vote to keep the MATERNITY HOME so I told the CHEMIST and DOCTOR. They said go ahead we will take it over as a PRIVATE TRUST. We got the whole building for a dollar. The moment we came out from under the umbrella of the AREA HEALTH BOARD we came under local restrictions and we had to pay forty five thousand to put in a sprinkling system that the HOSPITAL BOARD didn't have to have to do. So that was the HOSPITAL TRUST. Then we had the DOCTOR’S SURGERY just across the road and then the DOCTOR found he couldn't sell his practice, then JACK MUNRO got cracking and he collected one hundred thousand off the locals and we started THE MEDICAL TRUST. We bought the MEDICAL PRACTICE. It was here for a wee while then we thought this is silly we will use half of the MATERNITY HOSPITAL. Then we had two TRUSTS. The MEDICAL TRUST and the HOSPITAL TRUST. But since then our LAWYER advised us to set up the WAIAU HEALTH TRUST as the MAIN TRUST. The DOCTORS can lease the practice or they can work for us. They haven't got the millstone of a practice around their neck when they leave. The WAIAU HEALTH advertises on the net for new doctors. We have been very lucky with the doctors we've had. AMERICAN, ENGLISH DOCTORS and we've got DOCTOR SUE PEARCE who married a local farmer. So we have her here all the time. We get the MIDWIVES from THE STATES too. There are two types of qualification. Those with MASTERS DEGREES are the ones we have to aim for. We have them here for a couple of years. Each one has something different to contribute to the community.

WHAT ABOUT THE ELDERLY?

We have a RECREATION CENTRE where they go. We employ THERESE MEADOWS from OTAUTAU. She can supervise with six at a time. She arrives at half past nine she collects them in a van and has quizzes, games and morning tea. Might go on TIKI TOURS WINTON or INVERCARGILL for the day. We have five vehicles. We have the house in MCVICAR STREET. A house in PAPATOTARA ROAD, a flat at the HOSPITAL itself. The WAIAU HEALTH TRUST employs a PRACTICE NURSE, DISTRICT NURSE, a MANAGER/MIDWIFE, SUPERVISOR for the ELDERLY and the MANAGER for MEDICAL CENTRE and the DOCTOR. A lot of on call staff like CLEANERS, OBSTETRIC NURSES.

WHO DOES THE MEALS?

Used to be at the hospital but now bought in from a registered kitchen. Not open all the time. When no baby in it shuts down. When a woman is coming into the HOSPITAL the MIDWIFE turns on the heaters, heats the bed and informs the hotel that a meal required for tonight. The nurse will cook the breakfast and give a light lunch. Now into queen sized beds and the husband can stay and he gets a separate ensuite. Now the baby has to live in with you. The HOSPITAL has a certification as a baby friendly hospital. If the MIDWIFE sees that the mother is tired she can't take the baby out to give the mother a rest. She has to wait until the mother asks. There are not too many babies being born at the home as there are so many CAESARIANS these days. We try to get them back here. DOCTOR ELDER always said that he could see the signs of POST NATAL DEPRESSION set in on the fourth or fifth day. These kids are going home and we see them on the street the next day with the baby. We try and encourage them but it is very hard to get them to stay. We have done up two rooms with ensuites and one separate one for the men.

I BELIEVE THEY TRYING TO GET A RESPITE LIVE IN FOR THE ELDERLY IN THE HOME?

That hasn't come through yet. Whether you can have babies and elderly in the same home is the question. There is the danger of cross contamination. This is a problem under the Act. The hospital has to operate under THE ACT and MATERNITY HOSPITALS have a different ACT than PUBLIC HOSPITALS. It is all an experience and it is a learning experience and you never know whether you are going to be up for litigation or not. If something goes wrong are you the one who is going to be held responsible.

HOW DO YOU DEFINE COMMUNITY?

Mums and Dads and clubs. The clubs that they belong to form the difference. The SCHOOLS are an important part. SCHOOLS have always been a bit, how do I say, they hold to themselves. They tended to build all their houses together. I have always been of the firm opinion that if you work together all day you shouldn't live in the same area. They should be separated throughout the town so that they integrate and learn more about the town. You remember now this is an important part, is how you get funded for your money. TEACHERS are paid by the GOVERNMENT. They don't ever have to put out their own capital cost. They have no idea about money. About looking after it and being cautious. Because they think we need to spend all the money or they will take it back and we won’t get so much next year which is the wrong PHILOSOPHY altogether. If you save money and look after it you should be paid and rewarded for it.

IT'S A PHILOSOPHY THAT DOESN'T STAND NOWDAYS?

I found that people that come into the town; STATION MASTERS, BANK MANAGERS, POST MASTERS, TEACHERS. Four sections that are funded by GOVERNMENT. They come in and make big decisions and then you would get halfway through the project and they would walk off. I have always had a thing about those people being in charge of projects. It has to be someone who lives here has to work for his living, looks after his money, knows the town and what the town can afford.

SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE COMMUNITY ARE THE CLUBS?

Even the lions have changed. They like to be paid for the jobs that they do. This goes back to when the FORESTRY left. We still haven't made up that gap.

SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT THE VOLUNTEERS CAME FROM THE FORESTRY SECTOR?

They are the pen pushers they were used to writing things down. When we lost the FORESTRY we lost this big work force and I don't know how long ago. We still haven't made up that gap in the town. We are starting to have young ones who are going to live here and move into that volunteer sector, but you can't expect the young Mums and the Dads with two or three kids to give up their time and their money in volunteering to do things. There is an age group when that happens when the children fly the nest.

YOU'RE ACTUALLY SAYING THAT TUATAPERE AT THE MOMENT HAS GOT MANY ELDERLY PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE AND YOUNGER ONES COMING IN. TO WHAT?

The MILLS that are still here and the DAIRYING. That will make a difference to the MATERNITY HOME because there are young families coming in for DAIRYING. It has made a terrific difference. Remember in my day when I was young every farming family had a hut that had a worker in it that was employed in the district. Then things got so tight but now the DAIRYING is starting to bring the SHARE MILKERS and the other workers in. It is ever changing. It is hard to put a finger on when these things happened. It's subtle.

THE 1980S AND 1990S WERE A LOW TIME FOR TUATAPERE?

Yes. And remember we had the flood in 1984.

WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

I'm lucky I missed it. I was supposed to be here on CIVIL DEFENCE but I was working in LINDSAYS AND DIXONS OFFICE at the time. I was told to get back to JOANNE'S place where BILL and I were staying because the house in BRIDGE STREET was having alterations. When I came back the next day it flooded. ALAN CAMPBELL'S house where they are, it flooded right up to the eaves. It was unusual. The mouth shut off. And the moment the mouth blew open again the whole water just went shoosh way out. It came up and went down just as quickly again. It was all done in just a few hours the whole thing had been and gone. But the chaos it created and the sadness at things that they lost. And that's what made us get the FLOOD BANK. I was on THE BOARD at the time. And we built a FLOOD BANK in the DOMAIN for the HALFMILE ROAD.

AND IT WAS PURELY THE AMOUNT OF RAIN THAT FELL??

We had a stationary front and it just poured and it just poured and it just poured. And THE LAKES, and they let the water out of THE LAKES and they raised the gates too. JOHN KNOWLER talks about seeing this big wave come down the WAIAU on the CLIFDEN FLAT. But the ORAWIA rose at the same time and those that were in the air in a helicopter said that they could see the ORAWIA coming up and that mass of water pushing against the WAIAU and when it came down just spilled over into the DOMAIN. I understand that if you look at the FOOTBALL PAVILION it has a mark and the water was right up to that. That's a huge amount of water in there. One thing that would save it though it would get into the bush and into the ferns and that would take the energy out of it and slow it down a lot. But it still rushed through and rushed out and caused the devastation. Large expense and lots of sadness and sorrow because of photos and things that were lost and people were totally ruthless those who were making decisions were saying because this has had a flood through it with septic tanks we need to throw everything out. I'm not sure about that well my thinking is that if the septic tank is full the water would just go over the top. My theory might be wrong.

DID EVERYBODY PULL TOGETHER?

Yes everybody was there. There were trucks and boats tried to help people out. But it happened so quickly within seconds they had no idea this water was coming.

SO WHAT IS IT LIKE BEING A WOMEN LIVING IN TUATAPERE.

I see men and women as one. I realize they have different brains and different functions. As a woman you have to be able to manipulate them. You have to be able to work the system. If you can't do that then you're lost. (Laughter).

SO I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT YOU'VE NEVER FELT THAT YOU'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO DO ANYTHING THAT YOU WANTED DO BECAUSE YOU'RE A WOMAN.

Oh yes I don't let them intimidate me. This is where a lot of people make mistakes when they go into the likes of LOCAL BODIES. They forget that the ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF is there to help them but you're the one that makes a decision not them. Go in and kick them in the shins. They don't realize they are being dominated but you do have to.

YOU HAVE SPENT A LOT OF YOUR LIFE ON LOCAL BODY WORK?

Oh yes. Over twenty years just on the COMMUNITY BOARDS here and over thirty years in the LIBRARY. I actually CHAIR THE LIBRARY, I CHAIR THE AMENITIES TRUST, I CHAIR THE DOCTOR ELDER BURSARY TRUST and I am DEPUTY CHAIR of the TUATAPERE COMMUNITY WORKERS BOARD and the WAIAU HEALTH TRUST. I won't take any more chair work anymore. I've got enough.

WELL YOU'VE TURNED EIGHTY. THE COMMUNITY WORKER. TELL ME ABOUT THAT. WHERE DID THAT COME FROM?

There was money available. It came about when the FORESTRY left and all these people have these problems and don't know how to solve them and you don't have a car to go to INVERCARGILL. So the COMMUNITY WORKER helps people. You go to her and if she hasn't got the knowledge she will pass you on to the correct office. She is not a CONSULTANT and she is not allowed to give out advice. But she knows exactly where to go to put you. She refers. Yes. She is an ADVOCATE. She refers you on to the places what you are looking for. It works very well. LYNETTE started the RECREATION CENTRE. That works extremely well. People put up a barrier and say they are not old enough. But for those who are housebound it is a day’s stimulation. They get a morning tea, they buy a lunch that I think is supplied by the hotel and they get an afternoon tea and they get taken home.

WHAT DAYS?

TUESDAYS and WEDNESDAYS. They get subsidized by the DHB for those who qualify but if you have too much money you don't qualify but we say this is keeping people out of the old people’s homes as this is keeping their brains going and they have got to walk round they have get to play bowls whether they want to or not, they do it. It is excellent. It is really good.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE ARE A LOT ACTIVE ELDERLY PEOPLE HERE THAT IF THEY WERE IN INVERCARGILL THEY WOULD BE IN HOMES?

We try and keep the people in the PENSIONERS FLATS. They go there and they enjoy it. That was another good idea for TUATAPERE those PENSIONER HOUSING. That was my one loss with the men. I couldn't tell them that you needed a bedroom big enough that when you are luxing you do bend over. Men who have never done any housework have no comprehension of the room it takes to get a lux under a bed. They are about two feet too small and it just about makes me weep when I go in there and see them. It is only two feet and it wouldn't have cost much to have made them a little bit bigger. Because men don't do this physical work and they don't know that you have to move a bed and it takes room to move a bed.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS A CULTURE EXISTING IN TUATAPERE AT THE MOMENT?

There is a young wild teenager culture existing in TUATAPERE at the moment. They are away off and they are drinking and they are drinking more than we ever did. They aren't drinking beer they are drinking the hard stuff and the drugs are here.

WHERE DO THEY COME FROM? ARE THEY THE LOCALS?

People come out and they go rousing and the shearing gangs, don’t get me wrong, if they're working in the shearing gang they are working hard but they also play hard at night. And they are drinking. I think of BILL when he came home from the WAR. He had no money. He had been OVERSEAS and had no money and if we went to a DANCE and he bought half a dozen of those big brown bottles of beer that was their night out and they shared that with their friends. That's another thing. I was brought up very strictly. Women didn't go to pubs. Women didn't go to hotels and I used to be highly embarrassed sitting in the car and waiting for BILL while he went and bought his beer because that was not part of my culture. And even today to go into a HOTEL I am not comfortable. I go but I am not comfortable it is not my scene. I would sooner they come home with me and have a drink if they wanted to drink. If I had any. Yes things change. I don't think these POKIE MACHINES are all that they are cracked up to be. I think we have hidden gamblers that we don't know about in the town. The other funny thing about TUATAPERE is that they have a TOWN AND COUNTRY CLUB. A group of people had a row with the PUBLICAN so they built their own club. You have to hand it to them. They had the get up and go. They hold funerals at the TOWN AND COUNTRY CLUB. The CHURCHES are built for small COMMUNITIES. We have big funerals here. Huge funerals.

YOU HAVE QUITE A FEW FUNCTIONS THERE?

It's a nice venue. The only thing about it is the acoustics are not right. I was always disappointed that they didn't ask HAROLD MARSHALL. He was the one who had the PEONY GARDEN, as he was a PROFESSOR OF ACOUSTICS. If they had only asked him he could have told them what was wrong. Because he was going all over the world to DUBAI and places like that designing places for these ARABS. They have since sold the PEONY GARDEN. That is another source of employment. Not that one but JOHN MOFFAT he employs women and this is where the women get employed.

AM I RIGHT IN SAYING THAT TUATAPERE IS SETTLED IN TO BEING KNOWN AS A TOURIST TOWN?

Yes and the SAUSAGE CAPITAL has helped! He has painted the building and he's put the history of the building outside. They are taking TUATAPERE SAUSAGES everywhere and that was just a joke. The local TV station said they had to find the best sausages and of course everyone from TUATAPERE rang up and we won it! And we've been the TIMBER CAPITAL and been the SAUSAGE CAPITAL I don't know what they are going to come up with next. (Laughter). This is all what makes TUATAPERE.

WHERE DID THE HOLE IN THE BUSH COME FROM?

That was away back when the schools were here. I can actually give you, they are writing a book on the name of TUATAPERE the school is going to be one hundred years old. DES WILLIAMS from here is writing a book on the history. Of course they have got to cut it down it is too wordy for a school history. Of course when you go to these meetings you have these big debates. Some want it just to be about the school. You can't separate the school from the community. So whatever the history you have got to have the COMMUNITY HISTORY flow into it. He has done a lot of research on the name of TUATAPERE.

HOW HAS THE PROVISION OR LACK OF PROVISION OF SOCIAL SERVICES IMPACTED ON YOU AND YOUR FAMILY'S LIVES?

What did impact is, when I was learning to dressmaking I went to a school in INVERCARGILL. You could always go on a bus. You could either go on the NEWS BUS or you could go on the H&H BUS. One went through OTAUTAU and one through RIVERTON. They are both gone. We only have a shuttle that comes through from TE ANAU. And it costs forty or fifty dollars. These day’s people don't have the money. Remember this is only a small income town. Mainly sawmill employees with little or no money. All they had to offer was the skill in their own hands. And I don't think they were justly rewarded when you see what the executives are being paid today. I still think that the INDIANS need to be paid more. It's a funny thing when there's a LABOUR GOVERNMENT in I turn CAPITALIST. Absolutely and the moment the NATIONAL GOVERNMENT comes in I get a SOCIAL CONSCIENCE. I have great difficulty in getting the balance. In THE MILL we were always concerned about UNIONS but I saw that there were BAD EMPLOYERS and there were employers that exploited the labour and I thought they shouldn't have done. I guess balance is the word.

AND IT’S HOW TO GET THIS BALANCE? ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVEN'T ASKED YOU ABOUT IS THE CHURCHES. ARE THERE ANY CHURCHES HERE IN TUATAPERE?

The ANGLICAN CHURCH is still here. JOCELYN BROUGHTON is still the ANGLICAN VICAR. The CATHOLIC CHURCH brings a FATHER over from RIVERTON about once a month. The PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH hasn't got a minister but they are bringing people from AUSTRALIA who are RETIRED MINISTERS and SCHOOL TEACHERS that are interested in the CHURCH and interested in preaching. Because they are only asking a very small pittance we put them in a house and we give them a car and they stay for three months. It works well. We had one here who was a HORRELL, related to the HORRELLS and he spoke here on ANZAC DAY, on ENGLAND and the QUEENS PALACES, and during the war and how the war affected them. He's coming back I think this month. This will be his third trip back. We are not very kind to him when he comes. The weather is usually terrible. We have a musical group at the CHURCH, People who play the guitar, piano, key board and we have singers. We don't have a big group but the musical group is very strong.

IS THIS EVERY SUNDAY?

Yes, Come along. The town celebrated its one hundred years about three years ago. We had the MINISTER from TE ANAU and he brought five stones out of the river. He said this is the town's generations, the five generations and he spoke and it was most interesting address that. The five stones, it was a very apt way of putting it.

DO YOU BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT OR LOCAL COUNCIL HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO MORE FOR TUATAPERE?

I believe we can help ourselves if they let us. We are so bound by this RESOURCE MANAGEMENT ACT. In my days on the COMMUNITY BOARD we bought ten acres of land and that was going to be our refuse site. We would go down three metres and we dug this big hole and we trenched it right back. In the meantime this big thing in WELLINGTON said that we had to have a REGIONAL DUMP at BROWNS in the lime pit at WINTON so our little bit became part of a critical mass to get enough to go in there, so they shut us down. We had a REFUSE SITE that would have suited TUATAPERE for its life. We sold the gravel extracted that paid for the man that manned the pit and looked after it. You know it was a workable proposition and we had to close it down. It has cost us millions. We had to purchase the GREEN WHEELIE BINS which get picked up. These should have been picked up and taken to our LOCAL REFUSE SITE. I spoke to BILL ENGLISH about this. I said you know you have set up a RESOURCE MANAGEMENT ACT. You have set it up for a million people in AUCKLAND. You cannot fit six hundred people into that scheme of things. He said, "Oh yes you can." I said you can't as the mentality on ENVIRONMENT SOUTHLAND, they go up to AUCKLAND/WELLINGTON to listen to these guys and they have their minds set and they can't adjust. That's what our problem is and the other thing is that the SOUTHLAND DISTRICT COUNCIL all live in the INVERCARGILL COUNCIL AREA and that has an impact on them as our rates don't affect them. If they were actually being affected by the policies that were being set down or trying to be set down then it would be different.

IS THERE NOT LOCAL BODY REPRESENTATIVES WHO GO TO THOSE MEETINGS?

Yes but they are intimidated. You have to get right into their minds. And tell them they are only your servants. You are paying their wages and they have to do what you tell them. If they tell you anything say "write it down" "Give it to me in writing." They have to be able to justify it.

WHAT IS IT LIKE LIVING IN TUATAPERE WHEN YOU ARE OLDER?

I found my friends have either died or moved away. I had to put my husband in to an OLD PEOPLES HOME. The façade was good but if you went there as often as I did you saw the cracks and I don't want to go into an OLD PEOPLES HOME. They are all money orientated. The staff have to do so much in a certain time. This is the saddest thing that people shouldn't have to finish up like this. I meant looked after BILL for two and a half years and he was in a wheel chair. I was well looked after and had support. They were going to put a ramp in for me and I said I don't want a ramp so they put a lift in for me that went up and down and I just wheeled him down. They took it away when I was finished with but it was brilliant. Wheel chairs are not the easiest things to manage and I got a puncture up the street once. Fancy being up the street with a puncture in the wheel chair.

I HAVE OFTEN WONDERED WHY THEY DON'T HAVE LITTLE BOUTIQUE REST HOMES FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT.

It was costing me six hundred a week for BILL in a REST HOME. I don't begrudge it because it was his money but I would sooner bring someone into my home if I get like that. DISTRICT NURSES are very good. That's another thing because we are the WAIAU HEALTHTRUST we employ our OWN DISTRICT NURSES. Previously one would come from OTAUTAU one from RIVERTON both on a WEDNESDAY and we would have no one for the other six days.

WHY NOT SPREAD THEM OUT?

You ask me. You would have to ask the DISTRICT HEALTH BOARD that.

WHAT ABOUT MERCANTILE FIRMS?

Yes, we had five MERCANTILE FIRMS here and that only became a book debt to the farmer. They actually put the BOOT MAKER out of business because it was easier to go to the MERCANTILE FIRM and buy your boots and you didn't have to pay cash. Suddenly we had this influx of MERCANTILE FIRMS that started shops supplying gumboots, boots, coats, shirts but now we only have one which does a good job. But five for a small town like this!

I THINK I AM HEARING A HARDINESS ABOUT THE TUATAPERE PEOPLE THAT YOU JUST GET IN AND DO THINGS.

Remember that is our geographical position. We have the LONGWOODS here and the TAKIS there and we've got the sea here so we didn't have anyone else to help us. We were on our own. It wasn't until we got this through traffic when we got a road right up to MANAPOURI. People wouldn't come out here as they felt they were going backwards but now we've got this traffic I say you're not going backwards you're going through to TE ANAU and MANAPOURI.

I'll tell you how stupid I am. I was over in LUMSDEN and they were talking about their TAKITIMUS and I thought they are not your TAKITIMUS they are our TAKITIMUS. I forgot they had another side to them I was quite indignant. (Laughter) Because they were part of our boundary fence.

YOU ARE BECAUSE OF YOUR ENVIRONMENT?

Yes we had to become resilient because RIVERTON couldn't help us and OTAUTAU was over the hill, we always thought of OTAUTAU over the hill, so they couldn't help us, they were always looking towards INVERCARGILL not back to us. We had to help ourselves.