Person recorded: Robert Alfred (Alf) Excell

Date of Interview: 28 July 2004

Interviewer: M. Forrester

Tape counter: Sony TCM 939

Tape 1 Side A

006: States his full name is ROBERT ALFRED EXCELL and that he was born in NIGHTCAPS in 1920. Adds that he was named after two uncles both of whom were killed in WWI.

023: Describes NIGHTCAPS, along with its neighbour, OHAI, as thriving mining towns when he was a child. Says there were shops, blacksmiths, hotels.

041: Says his FATHER (WALTER) came from ST BATHANS and that his GRANDFATHER, HARRY, came from AUSTRALIA to ST BATHANS to work in the goldmines there, bringing with him a wife and six children. Adds they had seven more children in NZ. Later ALF explained that HARRY EXCELL was the youngest of four children born to parents ANNE and BEN in ENGLAND. BEN died at the age of 32 and his widow immigrated to AUSTRALIA with their two sons and two daughters in the 1800s.

060: Mentions that his FATHER moved to NIGHTCAPS following the discovery of COAL at OHAI and started his own COALMINING operation called WAIRAKI. Replies that it was a partnership and that his FATHER was MANAGING DIRECTOR of the company for many years.

068: States his MOTHER came from ROMAHAPA, near BALCLUTHA. Adds that his FATHER met his MOTHER there because of his blacksmithing skills – he had worked for a smithy there for a few years. Mentions his MOTHER’S name was MARGARET YOUNGSON and that she grew up on a FARM.

083: Agrees this would have been in the late 1800s as his FATHER not long afterwards took part in the BOER WAR as a FARRIER SERGEANT and it was on his return to NEW ZEALAND that he took up MINING again, first gold, and then the COAL at OHAI.

112: Says his FATHER was quite successful in COALMINING, although he had good and bad years and that ultimately industrial strikes at the mine killed the business and he eventually sold it at a “peppercorn rate”.

126: Replies that he is one of seven CHILDREN and that they grew up in a cottage-style home in NIGHTCAPS. Adds that because of a wide age gap between his siblings, his eldest BROTHER, ERNEST, built a hut at the bottom end of their section and the BOYS lived there.

144: Says he has two SISTERS, JOYCE and MARGARET and that three of his four BROTHERS have died, leaving an older BROTHER WALTER (aged 93) who lives in INVERCARGILL.

152: Describes it as a close family, but they also took part in all the social functions and his FATHER, he says, was deeply involved in several community committees.

160: One of these, he says, was the OHAI RAILWAY BOARD, a private rail link from WAIRIO to OHAI which was set up by local farmers and COALMINING operators to transport coal and farm stock/produce out of the district. He thinks it may have been established in the early 1900s, but it was eventually bought by the government.

190: Mentions that the railway is still operating from OHAI.

195: Replies that he went to NIGHTCAPS PRIMARY SCHOOL, adding that it was there that he first met his future wife, THELMA. Recalls there may have been up to 300 pupils attending the SCHOOL.

206: Explains that the children came from families working in the MINES or on local farms and that many of them had emigrated from MINE-working areas of the UK.

213: Recalls that his BROTHERS attended SOUTHLAND BOYS HIGH SCHOOL in INVERCARGILL because there was no secondary school in the district. However, he says, by the time he came along a DISTRICT HIGH SCHOOL had begun in NIGHTCAPS and that he and THELMA were among its first pupils.

221: Says the former METHODIST CHURCH building was used to house the school and that there were only about 25 pupils in total.

238: Referring to earlier schooldays, recalls how farmers would come into town on a FRIDAY by horse and gig to do their shopping. Talks about one family friend who would ride her horse into town with a saddlebag strapped on for her groceries.

250: Tells an anecdote about an exchange of words between this same woman and the town butcher.

268: Affirms that as with any small community, everyone knew each other and what they were up to. “It was like a big family.”

274: On his WIFE, THELMA, says she is one of four DAUGHTERS and that her FATHER’S name was HARRY TINKER and her MOTHER’S name was LOUISE. States that HARRY and three other TINKERS had started the BLACK DIAMOND COALMINE in NIGHTCAPS.

281: Adds that they also started up a side rail to link up their operation to the WAIRIO-OHAI track.

283: States that THELMA was born in NIGHTCAPS but soon after the family moved to CANTERBURY where HARRY started a COALMINE and railway at MT SOMERS. LOUISE and the children stayed in TIMARU.

291: Explains that HARRY and LOUISE divorced and that the father returned to NIGHTCAPS with his four DAUGHTERS.

311: On childhood games, recalls playing marbles and cards among his school friends adding that there were also the normal school sports such as RUGBY and CRICKET.

322: Tape stopped due to telephone interruption

327: On other outdoor pursuits, recalls going on HUNTING trips with his older BROTHERS, ERNIE and WALTER mainly into the MONOWAI area around BORLAND. Says they would shoot WILD PIG and DEER.

336: Mentions the family had a FISHING BACH at the mouth of the WAIRAKI RIVER and he was a frequent visitor as a child, accompanying his FATHER on fishing trips and catching COCKLEBILLIES (bait).

356: Referring back to his school days, says that academically he wasn’t a great student, although he got by. Replies that he did not go on to tertiary education, instead he became a junior clerk for the SOUTHLAND EDUCATION BOARD in INVERCARGILL after leaving school at 17/18.

368: States that WWII brought an end to that job as he volunteered to join up with the RNZ NAVY between 1941 and 1946.

376: Mentions that he suffered RHEUMATIC FEVER while at school, which meant he had to forego outdoor work, so he took the “pen-pushing” clerk’s job.

394: States that his health had markedly improved so that when he applied to join the NAVY, he omitted mentioning his illness. Says he then went through the NAVY’S medical examinations without a problem.

402: Laughs at mention of his first wage (1938/39). Says he started the junior clerk’s job at an annual salary of 52 pounds. Says board and lodgings cost him one pound a week, so his FATHER contributed a little to help out.

407: As a result, he found things pretty tight at times and recalls his FATHER giving him 5 pounds to buy a suit and he managed to get one for just 3pounds/10 shillings, leaving a surplus.

417: At mention of the DEPRESSION years, remembers that his FAMILY had fared better than many others... (tape runs out)

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002: Continues saying that his family owned a five-acre block of land not far from the house which meant an early morning walk to milk the cow before heading for school.

014: Recalls one of his tasks was to fill the “billies” belonging to the unemployed miners with cow’s milk. Also remembers separating the milk to make butter and cream.

026: Replies that his MOTHER did not work outside the home, in line with the social mores of that era which, he says, were carried on even to the time his eldest DAUGHTER was growing up (1960s).

040: States that despite his FATHER’S working commitments, the family still managed to spend a lot of time with him. Says they were very attached to him and their MOTHER.

047: Describes them as relaxed PARENTS who allowed them to follow their own inclinations in sports or academic activities.

070: On his choosing to join the NAVY rather than the other military services during WWII, says TE ANAU was a strong influence in that the family would often take fishing/boating trips into FIORDLAND, especially the UPPER WAIAU (river).

085: Later on, he says, the family had a holiday bach on the LAKE TE ANAU foreshore and that meant getting a dinghy, then an outboard motorboat, followed by a launch. So, boating had become a big interest which is why he chose the NAVY.

102: Explains his first introduction to the TE ANAU area was in fact a visit to MANAPOURI as a five or six year old (mid-1920s) on a holiday which included a group of families from NIGHTCAPS.

124: Remembers that the MANURERE launch which ran out of steam somewhere by STOCKYARD COVE and that to help pass the time while the steamer was recharged a water fight was started.

137: Also recalls that one of the party, a MR GRANT, who was a NIGHTCAPS-based (freight) CARRIER, decided to return via the BLACKMOUNT ROAD. Says this turned into a nightmarish trip because there were hardly any bridges so they had to ford creeks and streams and got stuck at several places.

160: States it was the mid-1930s when his FATHER built the family crib in TE ANAU. Before then, he says, they would stay in the FISHERMEN ACCLIMATISATION SOCIETY’S one-bedroom hut near the FISH HATCHERY, which was occupied by the SOCIETY’S manager, WARD BEER. Remembers seeing plum puddings hanging from the ceiling.

189: Explains they started building the family crib in the manuka on the foreshore. Says theirs was one of a few leasehold half-acre sections (government-owned land). Says it was a two-room crib. Tells a couple of humorous stories about ERNIE GOVAN at the TE ANAU HOTEL from whose property they had to request access in order to cut back the scrub.

250: The upshot of these tales was that he and his FATHER became good friends with “GUVVY”. (He indicates a side table in the living room which was donated by the hotel proprietor as first prize award in a boat race on the lake.)

275: Replies that two of his BROTHERS, GEORGE and ALBERT followed their FATHER in taking up COAL MINING. But they later got out of it.

284: Mentions that WALTER was the only one to go on to tertiary education. He gained a BA(Hons) at OTAGO UNIVERSITY and took up the teaching profession. ERNEST (the eldest) was a carpenter/builder.

299: Explains that ERNIE became his mentor so on returning to NEW ZEALAND in 1946, he took a government-subsidised apprenticeship in carpentry.

312: Discussion moves on to his service with the RNZ NAVY. Says he started out at the DEVONPORT naval base in AUCKLAND and that he began training as a signalman over a three-month intensive course.

325: From there, he says, he went on to a converted passenger liner called the MONOWAI which was fitted out with anti-aircraft guns etc.

339: Recalls spending nearly two years on the ship in the PACIFIC doing mainly convoy work. And later became more involved with the AMERICAN allies, particularly the US MARINES into the SOLOMON ISLANDS.

354: Describes how it was possible to move up the ranks and that he eventually became LEADING SIGNALMAN.

357: Replies that they underwent a degree of active service, and recalls the ship coming under attack from JAPANESE torpedoes while escorting an AUSTRALIAN vessel.

364: Tape stopped and re-started

371: Says that despite being showered by exploding shrapnel and rubble, the torpedoes didn’t actually penetrate the MONOWAI. Says, the attacking submarine surfaced and its gun on the fo’c’sle started shelling the ship but the MONOWAI returned fire. The submarine quickly submerged again and the NZ ship was able to continue escorting the AUSTRALIAN vessel through a passage that would have been inaccessible to the submarine.

393: Recalls other action such as air raids at ESPIRITO SANTO in the NEW HEBRIDES, and the SOLOMONS. Proceeds with a humorous tale about supplies for naval personnel, in this instance, involving cases of beer for the AUSTRALIANS.

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Tape 2 Side A starts

002: Opens with another story about the MONOWAI and its traditions, one of which was that when the ship went into action, the CAPTAIN had to don a MAORI cloak. Recalls his first introduction to action was seeing this tradition take place on the bridge.

020: Mentions leaving the MONOWAI to spend two/three months in WELLINGTON teaching WRENS recognition signals which were used at BEACON HILL.

034: Then, he says, he got his overseas draft and went to the UK via SAN FRANCISCO and NEW YORK where he boarded the QUEEN MARY to GLASGOW. Says there were 12,000 AMERICANS on the liner, which he says, always travelled on its own because it was too fast for the U-boats to catch up with her.

060: Describes how the sailing went, and that although he shared a cabin with four others, some passengers slept in rougher conditions. For example, the swimming pools had been emptied of water and were filled instead with bedding. “Most unusual.”

087: Explains they were based at HMS DRAKE in PLYMOUTH.

103: Describes that just before he was sent off again he experienced one of those “small world” events. While taking refuge in an air raid shelter, a petty officer noticed his RNZ flash and in the ways of these types of conversations, it turns out the man had once been his SCOUT MASTER in NIGHTCAPS.

121: Responding to question about his ENGLISH forebears, states they were not from PLYMOUTH but somewhere near WESTON SUPER-MARE. Thinks it was a GREAT, GREAT GRANDMOTHER who as a widow left for AUSTRALIA with three or four CHILDREN from BRIGHTON.

134: Relates another tale about visiting the BORDERS in SCOTLAND during a spell of leave.

149: Says he and his friend travelled by train from EDINBURGH to BERWICK where they were met by a chauffeur-driven vehicle and taken to a place called LADYKIRK, near KELSO. Says the estate, also called LADYKIRK was run then by a LADY SUSAN ASKEW whose husband was a high ranking officer in the BRITISH ARMY.

161: Recalls that after they were introduced, they were then shown to their quarters which was a “but’n’ben” some distance away from the main house.

175: Remembers it as a “most enjoyable” visit although admits to being quite intrigued about the ways of the BRITISH aristocracy as opposed to the commoner, which being NEW ZEALANDERS, they were not familiar with.

193: Talks about THELMA who had joined the NZ WRENS during WWII. Explains that at the age of 21, she was given a choice of volunteering to one of the armed services or being conscripted to compulsory work. In her case, he says, the work was in a linen/flax factory in OTAUTAU, so she opted for the WRENS which first formed in NEW ZEALAND in 1942, making her one of the first to join.

205: Continues that THELMA started at PETONE as a cook, but was transferred and trained as a nurse in AUCKLAND. Says it was there that they met again one CHRISTMAS when the MONOWAI had returned for a spell of refurbishment.

216: Recalls having CHRISTMAS dinner with her at GOVERNMENT HOUSE which was occupied by US personnel, so it was a traditional AMERICAN-style meal with turkey and the trimmings.

224: Says he met THELMA again in WELLINGTON when he was teaching the WRENS on BEACON HILL. It was on that occasion, he says, that they got engaged to be married, shortly before he was drafted to go overseas again.

232: Replies that it was CHRISTMAS EVE, 1945, when he finally returned to NEW ZEALAND. Gives more details, though, of further action he was involved in. For example in MALTA they were put into army uniforms and taught to be soldiers. Then when the ITALIAN NAVY surrendered, he and his compatriots were shipped into the port of MANFREDONIA.

266: Explains they were established there as a “complete port party”. After some months, he says, they were assembled into a mobile unit and with the army swept up the ADRIATIC COAST with the main objective being the takeover of NAVAL installations at TRIESTE.

282: Describes as “most unusual” that stint with the army, when despite seeing bridges blown up etc., there was not much actual combat. Says they were instructed to “use our weapons with discretion” and “don’t shoot at anybody unless they were aggressive”.

290: Also describes how as they neared TRIESTE, “more GERMAN prisoners came out of the bush with their hands up…eh, it was crazy…and they’d be wanting to give you watches and…”

299: “I never pulled the trigger once, because they were only too happy to…have security.”

302: Talks about taking over a central building in TRIESTE as NAVAL HQ as well as the port and signal stations. Says the port area was littered with mines making sea passage impossible. Mentions the (YUGOSLAV) PARTISANS also moving into the city because they wanted to win it back from ITALIAN rule granted by the allies after WWI.

316: Says the tension in the city was palpable and that both men and women on the side of the PARTISANS openly carried guns and ammunition.

327: Mentions that the mines in the sea were “devilish” because it was difficult to know which types were laid where. However, NAVAL mine sweepers managed to clear up the waters. Gives a detailed explanation of how this was done.

358: After TRIESTE, he says, he joined the BRITISH vessel, HMS ORION and saw out the rest of the war on the ship. Mentions that VE Day occurred while he was stationed at TRIESTE.

369: Says the HMS ORION was used as a symbol of the new peace as it toured the ADRIATIC and the MEDITERRANEAN. Explains that the vessel was chosen for this role because she had seen much action in CRETE and GREECE and had been almost destroyed. However, after refurbishment in the US, she was brought back to the MEDITERRANEAN and ADRIATIC.

413: Says after the war ended, a missive was sent out to all BRITISH vessels to give NZ personnel the opportunity to return home. Adds that he was offered to continue for another two years to complete his training to become a NAVAL OFFICER, but he opted instead to head home.

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004: Opens with an account of his journey back to NZ by aircraft carrier. Adds that he encountered a problem on arrival in WELLINGTON where THELMA was waiting on the wharf.

024: Although he was not billeted to be discharged there, (being a SOUTH ISLANDER, he was to be transported to LYTTELTON) he asked for special permission but was refused. However, he was granted a shore pass but says he deserted the ship after arranging to have his gear offloaded.

040: Says it was CHRISTMAS EVE, 1945 and that he and THELMA had CHRISTMAS dinner the next day at the NAVAL hospital in WELLINGTON.

049: Mentions they got married (1946) during his leave period after THELMA was discharged from service.

060: Says they returned to NIGHTCAPS for the ceremony in the PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH.

069: Says it was a “funny honeymoon” because rationing was still in place but their families had collected petrol and food coupons for them and his FATHER leant him the use of his old CHEVROLET car and a caravan which they took to the WANAKA area.

077: Recalls they took a fishing rod and a rifle with them. “We were going to live on the land, which we did…eh… we caught fish and shot rabbits…and eh…it…it was quite a good honeymoon.”

080: Remembers their first night together as a married couple was under a hawthorn hedge (in the caravan) and tells the story that led up to this.

116: Tells another story about diving into a river for a swim, having removed all his clothes and THELMA yelling out “You’ve got your watch on (laughs)”.

120: Interview closes

A second interview was conducted only a day or two later on 30 JULY 2004

126: Replies that as a newly married couple, their first home was in NIGHTCAPS. By then he’d been granted discharge from the NAVY and they rented a one-bedroom cottage for 12s/6d per week. Says it was pretty basic, with no running water but a coal range.

143: Recalls that having a bath involved going to an exterior laundry shed at the back of the property which had a tin bath and a copper for boiling hot water. Adds that he had begun his carpentry apprenticeship under his brother’s business.

153: Some time later, he says, they bought a cottage for 300 pounds (in WHAMPHREY STREET) which had two bedrooms and a lounge separate from the kitchen. Says this was his first building project and that he installed a septic tank and flush toilet plus running water etc.

186: Mentions their first child, DAWN, was born in NIGHTCAPS which then had a maternity home, in 1948/49, shortly before they moved to TE ANAU.

209: Says it was a gradual process to move permanently to TE ANAU, which began with his brother being commissioned to build a house at THE KEY for JOHN MACDONALD (PLAINS STATION). Says he probably put in more work on that project than his brother.

230: Remembers he and THELMA worked on finishing the family crib in TE ANAU and lived in that for a while.

235: At this stage, about 1949, he says he decided to set up his own business and with THELMA’S support they tried out QUEENSTOWN and BALFOUR before finally settling on TE ANAU.

250: Their first home in the town was the bach owned by THELMA’S FATHER, who also lived with them.

254: Recalls it wasn’t easy setting up business in TE ANAU in 1950 because the settlement existed only of holiday baches along the foreshore, the HOTEL and the wharf plus the SCHOOL and the MINISTRY OF (PUBLIC) WORKS OFFICE on the MILFORD ROAD.

261: Describes the rest of TE ANAU as manuka and bracken and that the road from the wharf to the boat harbour was a single gravel track.

266: Most work he did at first, he continues, was for the holiday crib owners who worked in various professions in INVERCARGILL and DUNEDIN.

269: Recalls his first year’s income was 800 pounds which he says “wasn’t too bad (laughs)”.

278: Gives detailed description of the town which was approached via the lakefront past the camping ground. Lists who lived where including GUS MCGREGOR, CHECKETTS, GREENSLADE, ROY and RALPH HANNAN, THOMPSON, FRED HALL-JONES, MCCAW, STANFORD, JOCK CUTHILL, DRS. POTTINGER, DR. JENNINGS, JOE GREEN, and DR. ORBELL.

316: States he did work most of these people over the years.

321: Also mentions HERBERT ADAMS, whose section they now live on. Says ADAMS was the CROWN PROSECUTOR in DUNEDIN who with his wife preferred to holiday as recluses in the middle of the manuka.

341: Agrees that most of the original cribs are now gone. Those remaining include DOC ORBELL’S, HERBERT ADAMS’, CHARLIE BEATON’S, the POTTINGERS’ and HALL-JONES’.

356: Talks about the ‘squatter’, people who built properties on CROWN LAND without permission. One of these was at TUI BAY, another was on the lake edge where the DOC HQ stands, and a couple of others with some history attached.

371: Replies that among the other few permanent dwellers there was LAWSON BURROWS, who were their first neighbours. Attaches a story to this about THELMA’S washing machine becoming virtually a communal facility.

380: Returning to the ‘squatters’, says that they were tolerated at first but as the town began to develop they became a problem. So the authorities offered them sections elsewhere in the town at a reasonable price.

406: States that before the development began, the town had been surveyed and was first called MARAKURA township. Says the whole area was CROWN LAND – the HOTEL was TOURISM DEPT. LAND – and the only leasehold land was a five-acre block owned by BARNEY GILLIGAN and CURLY MCIVOR.

416: That block, he continues, began at the present LUXMORE HOTEL and included the EXCELL’S former home (opposite the MOBIL GARAGE). Tape runs out.

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Tape 3 Side A starts

002: Continues with discussion about the leasehold sections along the waterfront. Affirms that the CROWN LAND annual rents were about 15 shillings. Says the sections were eventually offered as freehold sites to the lessees and that his FATHER bought his for about 80 pounds in the mid-1930s.

023: Mentions that the township was re-surveyed but that there were only a few tracks cut through the manuka, so that anyone who bought sections had the job of clearing them of scrub.

039: Recalls that (GEORGE) RADFORD’S shop was opened in 1950. Before that, he says, there was MRS (SYLVIA) BAKER’S shop.

058: Responding to question, says the SCHOOL was opposite the MOW offices and that most of the children’s families were people who worked on the MILFORD ROAD and that the MOW supervisor, TOM PLATO, made sure he employed couples with families.

077: States his DAUGHTER, DAWN was the 13th pupil at the school in 1954.

110: Remembers buying part of the sub-divided five-acre section that was owned by GILLIGAN and MCIVOR. Says at auction, he put in a bid of 380 pounds for about one and a half acres of it but it was passed in, although later they offered to accept 400 pounds for it. Which is the final sum he paid.

122: Laughs as he recalls his brother saying he was a “silly bugger” for paying so much for it.

134: Says he planned the house he was going to build and started making concrete blocks in the evenings and at weekends. Eventually it was finished in the mid-1950s. “I think virtually everything in it I’d made myself including joinery, windows, you name it.”

161: Mentions he also worked for the three partners in FIORDLAND TRAVEL – WILSON CAMPBELL, LAWSON BURROWS and ROBBIE ROBB. Says he built the premises by the wharf that are still being used.

175: Business picked up rapidly once the LANDS & SURVEY DEVELOPMENT PROJECT began to take shape in the later 1950s.

182: Responding to question, says MRS BAKER’S guest house was originally built as garaging by ERNIE GOVAN at the HOTEL to house the vehicles of MILFORD TRACK walkers.

194: Affirms he worked on the original LUXMORE HOTEL building which belonged to PETE and MARGARET SUJMANOVIC, who initially had a café in RADFORD’S shop.

206: Says he built the two-storey place which housed a restaurant and kitchen at ground level and accommodation above. He later built the accommodation round into MIRO ST. to eventually finish up on MOKONUI ST.

224: However, he says the bulk of his work was beyond the town boundaries. Much of it was for LANDS & SURVEY adding that he built its very first house for the MANAGER, (GEORGE) SINCLAIR. Says it’s still there on the left (on MILFORD ROAD) by the UPUKERORA RIVER.

233: Comments that the work increased with perhaps two/three houses being built at the same time as the L&S workforce grew. Says it included properties along KAKAPO ROAD, LAGOON ROAD.

242: Recalls also being contracted to do work for some of the landowners too, such as the SPEIGHTS (REDCLIFF STATION) and JOE GALLAND (ELMWOOD STATION) who provided a lot of work.

249: Inevitably, he faced competition from other builders especially, he says, as INVERCARGILL was suffering a downturn of building work at the same time as TE ANAU was booming.

262: Responding to question, affirms that THELMA did not undertake paid employment – her responsibilities centred around the home and their three DAUGHTERS.

267: States he did not go into partnership with anyone else, preferring to “do my own thing”. But he did take on staff and at one stage had as many as eleven employees, although usually there were between two and five.

279: Mentions his first employee was a carpenter who’d been with the MOW, named NORMAN MCDOWALL. Recalls he used to play the trumpet and joined in the social life of the town, teaming up with the BURNBYS (GEORGE and CARLEY) who played the squeeze box and piano respectively. There was also ROBBIE ROBB on the saxophone, he says.

293: Remembers taking an apprentice, SNOW BURROWS. Backtracks a little and thinks that in fact his first worker was a young ALAN MCIVOR who helped at weekends and school holidays.

305: As for materials, recalls it was “terrible” trying to get them initially. Explains that post-war, you weren’t allowed to use corrugated iron for roofing and had to beg for timber from the mills. So he had to find other materials which weren’t as suitable.

328: Recalls one timber merchant offering native beech, which was fine if it was good, he adds, but more often than not it would curl and snarl, and often resulted in ten percent wastage.

334: However, once competition affected the sawmills, things eased considerably for him.

337: States most of his timber supplies came from TUATAPERE.

351: Mentions that the first house he built was for MRS GOVAN as a widow. The house, he says, is still in the town, although it has been moved from its original site on the lakefront.

354: Admits there were spells of downturn for the business, especially in the face of competition. But he says they prepared for such eventualities by having a good workshop and staff. And he would buy the odd section and build ‘spec’ houses so that the staff would be employed all the time.

363: It paid dividends, he says, because they could start those jobs and lay them to rest if contract work came in and return to them later.

376: Replies that his houses are “very solid”. And he laughs at a comment once made by a friend who said he could always pick ALF’S houses out because they had a specific design.

384: States he drew up his own plans and admits that in order to meet a set standard, his houses followed a general pattern. Says it would be a bungalow with eaves, a solid exterior (which meant concrete block or brick) with everything inside of a permanent basis. “They were good, sound, substantial structures, put it that way.”

400: About his DAUGHTERS, says the second one (LYNNE) followed about three years after DAWN and the youngest, CHERYL, was born five or six years after LYNNE, when they’d moved into the new house on MILFORD ROAD.

409: Recalls it wasn’t easy bringing up a young family in the town at that time because of the lack of medical care (the nearest doctor was at LUMSDEN) and secondary schooling was also a problem later on. But he considers that otherwise it was good because it wasn’t a city. Tape runs out.

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003: Opens with discussion about domestic chores. Says he did his fair share of child care especially at night. Mentions DAWN was ill for a number of years and spent a long spell in hospital in DUNEDIN.

022: Talks about organising picnics which the CHILDREN enjoyed.

032: Agrees that child support in the 1950s was a problem and that mothers in the community formed their own group, called the YOUNG MOTHERS GROUP, of which THELMA was PRESIDENT for a while. This was followed by the formation of a local branch of the PLUNKET SOCIETY.

067: Affirms that the CHILDREN all attended TE ANAU SCHOOL, but had to go to INVERCARGILL for their secondary education.

073: But he recalls that DAWN went to the secondary school at the MANAPOURI HYDRO VILLAGE which existed for the duration of the construction of the POWER SCHEME at WEST ARM.

076: Both LYNNE and CHERYL, he says, went to SOUTHLAND GIRLS HIGH SCHOOL.

095: Considers he was quite strict with regard to his DAUGHTERS’ upbringing and that certainly THELMA was more liberal than he.

117: Moving on to amenities in the 1950s, says electricity was a “bugbear” and that they had an ALADDIN LAMP run on kerosene for lighting.

125: Mentions he wired their first cottage in TE ANAU, for a 12-volt system and his FATHER-IN-LAW bought a WINDMILL generator to charge the battery. Adds he built a tower for it and it sat at the back of the section.

131: Comments that it worked fine when the wind blew. Another drawback, he says, was the “terrific noise” it made outside their bedroom window and whenever they forgot to switch it off for the night and the wind got up, sleep was disturbed.

143: The next step, he says, was a diesel generator which was rigged to switch itself on and off.

156: Says when they moved to their MILFORD ROAD home, he built a separate generator shed as far from the house as possible on their section. Adds they positioned the exhaust outwards, which meant it faced into their neighbours’ house (GILLIGANS).

163: However, he laughs, there was a problem when they installed a refrigerator. If they forgot to switch it off at night it would start up and thereby automatically activate the generator so that two families would be rudely awakened from their slumbers.

178: Mentions when electricity did arrive(1958), each user was issued a document to sign guaranteeing to pay the power authority a certain amount each year regardless of whether the electricity was used or not.

183: Says consumption far outstripped expectations to the extent that the authorities had to upgrade the lines not long after.

188: Refers to the LIT-UP BALL organised by the TE ANAU HALL committee and the LADIES SOCIAL committee, of which THELMA was chairman. In those days, he says, there were strict prohibitions on serving alcohol at public events.

200: Mentions that to get around that one, complimentary tickets were given to the local policeman (based in LUMSDEN) and some local authority representatives. Replies they all attended and that alcohol was served.

213: Attests that it was a “rip-roaring success” and that the whole town turned out for it. Quickly follows this by saying another LIT-UP BALL was held not long after, run by BILL HAZLETT at BURWOOD STATION.

227: Referring to the telephone system, agrees that the first link was “very antiquated” and that it consisted of one wire from MOSSBURN to TE ANAU which took in the farms along the route.

231: Recalls those who had a telephone including WARD BEER, the TE ANAU HOTEL, MOW, and the POST OFFICE. Adds when he first arrived in 1950, he would use WARD BEER’S phone.

239: Mentions that later, there was a TELEPHONE EXCHANGE but party lines were still being used which meant each home was given a MORSE CODE ID. Recalls his signal was “S…three dots”.

256: On the road network, affirms the road between TE ANAU and MOSSBURN was unsealed so hat travelling the gravel road was “very slow-going”.

264: Comments on the government regulations on transportation of goods at that time. “I couldn’t just take a truck to INVERCARGILL and pick it (timber) up and bring it up here. That was against the law…I had to use the railway to my nearest rail head.”

273: Remembers it meant that delicate joinery timber had to go through quite a lot of handling through INVERCARGILL, LUMSDEN and MOSSBURN which, he says, frequently resulted in the goods being damaged by the time they finally reached TE ANAU. But, he adds, it was too difficult to apportion blame to any one handler.

300: Responding to question on his retirement, says that at the age of 57, he decided it was time to see the world. So, in 1976, he and THELMA took six months off after he’d managed to reduce his business contracts. They started in HONOLULU, then the US, the UK and EUROPE.

316: Laughs that on their return to NZ, he started BUILDING work again, mainly for family.

336: Says he didn’t really give up BUILDING till he reached his seventies.

347: Discussion switches to his membership of the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK BOARD. Says he initially got involved because of his association with the TE ANAU COMMUNITY COUNCIL. Mentions he was its first local chairman.

358: Recalls he spent about 16 years on the NP BOARD finishing up around 1985.

361: Affirms he was among the initiators of the KEPLER TRACK close to TE ANAU. States that he and fellow board member, LES HENDERSON, came up with the idea of an easily accessible walking track.

370: Mentions there was already a track from BROD BAY to MT LUXMORE as well as one from RAINBOW REACH to SHALLOW BAY so they mapped out the rest of what they initially called the ‘ROUND THE MOUNTAIN’ TRACK.

382: Says the funding was made available from the government’s TOURISM PUBLICITY DEPARTMENT and the construction was helped by the DUKE OF EDINBURGH OPERATION RALEIGH SCHEME in 1986.

384: Recalls that by then, he was no longer part of the NP BOARD, which he says had possibly been disestablished to make way for the newly formed DEPARTMENT of CONSERVATION which took over responsibility for the management of the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK.

388: Explains that he got involved with OPERATION RALEIGH which he says was established near the former MANAPOURI HYDRO VILLAGE (before it was dismantled). Says due to his AMATEUR RADIO interests, he became involved in the project’s communications co-ordinated by the NZ RADIO TRANSMITTERS ASSOCIATION.

394: Calculates there were up to 140 young people taking part from around the globe.

403: Mentions they not only worked on the KEPLER TRACK, but also on other projects in SOUTHERN NEW ZEALAND, such as YELLOWHEAD (BIRDS) surveys, rat eradication on BREAKSEA ISLAND, and others so the participants were dispersed around the region.

406: Says the person running the whole project was a former NAVY LIEUTENANT COMMANDER who laid down the law and made sure it was strictly adhered to.

Tape 3 Side B stops

Tape 4 Side A starts

007: Continues with discussion of the OPERATION RALEIGH team’s work on the KEPLER TRACK. Says they did a “massive amount of work” and explains that they had to form the track between the SWING BRIDGE at RAINBOW REACH to BROD BAY then continued from LUXMORE around to SHALLOW BAY via the IRIS BURN.

016: Says the volunteers worked on it for about six months as well as DEPARTMENT of CONSERVATION staff.

026: Replies that during his time, the NP BOARD was an autonomous organisation funded by government grants, so affirms the committee members made all the decisions on all BOARD affairs.

034: It was a period of years (1970-mid 1980s) which he says included VENISON RECOVERY and the HELICOPTER WARS…”very volatile situations at times”.

043: Agrees that many local residents of the BASIN were opposed to the decisions made by the NP BOARD. But, he argues, it was bound by an ACT (of Parliament) which was a NATIONAL PARKS BIBLE. So, he says, non-indigenous flora and fauna were to be viewed as noxious. Adds that sticking to the policies of the ACT caused, and still causes, a lot of friction.

061: Exemplifies the LUPINS in the (EGLINTON) VALLEY, “which are beautiful coloured LUPINS” but still deemed an introduced (and therefore noxious) species.

071: Describes himself as a FISHERMAN and HUNTER but one who’s also aware of the problems DEER cause in the PARK and even problems caused by HUMANS, whereas, he says, some of the hunting fraternity wanted to retain the DEER so they could shoot them for sport.

091: On question of restrictions imposed on the early runholders following the formation of the NATIONAL PARK, replies the runholders could do what they wished on their own enterprises, and that any problems that arose may not have involved the NATIONAL PARK, but possibly the DEPARTMENT OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS.

099: However, he does admit there were conservationists who may have also been involved in the NATIONAL PARKS who were opposed to some of the runholders actions in relation to DEER.

113: Referring to the HOLLYFORD VALLEY runholder, DAVID GUNN, agrees that he had been established a long time before a RESERVE or PARK was formed so, he says, there was always friction there, (particularly as enacting the NP ACT, meant the removal of cattle, horses, dogs).

129: Continues that the BOARD had some sympathy towards the GUNNS’ position and continued communicating with them to reach some compromise.

144: Other organisations he’s been involved with include the TE ANAU SCHOOL committee, the TE ANAU HALL committee, the COUNTY TOWN committee (previously mentioned).

058: Names some of the others on the latter committee including ALLEN SPEIGHT, TERRY GILLIGAN, TED ROBERTS, TED THOMAS who represented permanent residents. Adds some of the crib owners were REUBEN ALLEN from LUMSDEN, ALAN ANDERSON, from MYROSS BUSH, and CARL FISCHER, from INVERCARGILL.

182: Says he was appointed as first local chairman of the committee in the 1960s, some time after the initial set up was chaired by WALLACE COUNTY COUNCIL member, COLIN BOYD.

192: Recalls becoming embroiled in trying to establish a medical service assisted by JOHN MOORE who was the sole doctor previously employed for the HYDRO VILLAGE at MANAPOURI.

201: Explains that in order to keep the doctor in the area, the authorities and the committee pooled resources to buy a house for him and also tried to set up a medical centre.

207: Mentions STOCKTON RUSH (an AMERICAN businessman who created TAKARO LODGE in the UPUKERORA VALLEY as a hunting/shooting tourism venture) who came forward to offer benevolent funding for medical centre. Says he drew up costings etc., but the plan fell through following the failure of STOCKTON RUSH’S enterprise.

225: However, he says, the county town committee managed to shift a house from MANAPOURI to TE ANAU which became the first medical centre.

229: Goes on to say he drew up plans for a purpose-built centre, which weren’t approved at first, but with a redraft, that’s what is now in place as the present medical centre (due for reconstruction).

252: On the social life of the town, says there was a SATURDAY night picture show at the HALL, and mentions he was the projectionist, GUS MCGREGOR was the door-keeper and SNOWY WILLIAMS was the assistant projectionist. Adds that the funds raised helped towards the cost of the school swimming pool.

259: Recalls there were regular dances in the HALL with local musicians.

265: Comments that if a family had a party, it more or less meant the whole community was there too.

273: Mentions the HOTEL was also a focal point and talks about the MARRIED COUPLES dinners there “which were hilarious nights”. Mentions some of the HOTEL managers who wholeheartedly threw themselves into the community such as the TILLERS, BILL TRAILL and MYRTLE and ARCHIE WITHINGTON.

296: Replies that apart from community affairs, his main interests are gardening, rifle shooting and just pottering round the house.

312: With regard to THELMA’S interests, says her main involvements surrounded organising children’s events. Being a good baker and cook, birthday cakes were very elaborate.

321: Says they’ve been living at TE ANAU TERRACE since 1987/88.

334: On the future of TE ANAU – “I would hate to think it would move in the QUEENSTOWN direction, but there are elements of that now, I guess, to some degree.”

342: Adds that he would hope the town would always be associated with the LAKE, the NATIONAL PARK and the great outdoors without too much development.

357: Interview ends