Interviewee: Thomas Andrew (Tom) Roberts

Date: 27 October 2005

Interviewer and Abstractor: Morag Forrester

Tape counter: Sony TCM 939

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004: States his full name is THOMAS ANDREW ROBERTS and that he was born in INVERCARGILL on 24/AUGUST/1932.

009: His FATHER, he says, was named JAMES EDWARD ROBERTS, born in BLUFF in 1901 and five years later living in TE ANAU with his PARENTS (TOM’S GRANDPARENTS). Adds that his FATHER left the district in 1919 when he began working for NEW ZEALAND RAILWAYS.

020: CAPTAIN THOMAS ROBERTS, (GRANDFATHER), he says, came to TE ANAU after applying for a shore-based job. States CAPT. ROBERTS had spent several years working on foreign-bound SHIPS. [Twenty-six year old THOMAS ROBERTS, from KENT, ENGLAND, immigrated to NEW ZEALAND in 1886 after several years at sea serving on merchant ships that sailed the AMERICAS and other foreign lands. He quickly gained promotion while serving on NEW ZEALAND-owned vessels and in 1906, applied for the job of CAPTAIN of the government steamer, the SS TAWERA, which carried passengers to and from the MILFORD TRACK (first opened in 1888-89). His decision was influenced by the needs of his wife and growing family. See accompanying documents from an article written by IRENE GOLDSMITH (née ROBERTS) for the magazine, NZ MEMORIES] 029: States CAPT. ROBERTS was paid 12 pounds/month as SKIPPER of the S.S. TAWERA, a tourist launch operated by the government to carry people up LAKE TE ANAU to the start of the MILFORD TRACK.

045: Describes the town and surrounding area in the early 1900s as a “very primitive set up (laughs)”.

048: Replies that the first CAPTAIN of the S.S. TAWERA was (R. MURRAY) MENZIES who died around 1906 after suffering ill-health. 055: By then, he says, there were four children in CAPT. ROBERTS’ family with another two born after they moved to TE ANAU. In descending order they were TOM AWARUA, JAMES EDWARD, DORIS ORIANA, CHRISTINE MAY, GEORGE FREDERICK and ALICE LOUISE MARAROA.

060: Mentions that the family lived in a house situated on what now constitutes LION PARK. However, what it was made of or how it was constructed is unknown because, he says, there were no photographs taken of it.

069: States his paternal GRANDMOTHER was named ALICE adding that she had described moving to TE ANAU as akin to moving to “the ends of the earth”.

076: The TE ANAU HOTEL, he says, had been established by (WILLIAM) SNODGRASS who built it in1890. It was taken over in 1906 by the government’s DEPARTMENT of TOURIST and HEALTH RESORTS (established in 1901). The same department assumed administrative control of the MILFORD TRACK in OCTOBER 1903. The government also bought the SS TAWERA around 1906. The hull had been built in DUNEDIN and railed to MOSSBURN in two sections. From there it was carted by bullock teams to TE ANAU and reassembled. The owners were the brothers, DONALD and JOHN ROSS (who had been guides on the MILFORD TRACK) and CAPTAIN MENZIES. The vessel was launched on LAKE TE ANAU in 1899.

094: Speculating on the TAWERA’S customers, he says there was an INVERCARGILL-based firm named D.W. MACKAY which used to organise trips in the late 1920s to MILFORD SOUND on the government steamer, HINEMOA. Some of those passengers, he adds, walked the MILFORD TRACK either from MILFORD or TE ANAU so would also have taken a trip on the TAWERA.

110: Considers that most of the people who walked the TRACK in the early 1900s were men, although he mentions that a record of the first woman to walk it is noted in a book about the TRACK by INVERCARGILL historian, JOHN HALL-JONES.

117: Replies that CAPTAIN ROBERTS was employed on the TAWERA until 1923 when the family moved to INVERCARGILL, probably on retirement as he died in his eighties in 1940.

122: However, he says that in INVERCARGILL, his GRANDFATHER ran the HINEMOA for the government, servicing lighthouses in the southwest as well as carrying passengers to MILFORD SOUND from BLUFF.

131: In the early 1900s, he says, there was no school in TE ANAU, so the ROBERTS children, including his FATHER, JAMES, were taught by ALICE ROBERTS.

149: States his FATHER was about eighteen years old when he started work on the railways, so had virtually spent all his time before that in TE ANAU. “I don’t suppose there’d have been much opportunity to get out of the district. ’T’was a major trip to get to INVERCARGILL in those days.”

155: Considers it would have taken all day to make that trip although the time would have been reduced a little when passenger rail services reached LUMSDEN.

160: Mentions the ‘big snow’ of 1919 when there were no “decent roads between MOSSBURN and here” and people in the BASIN were cut off for about six weeks.

181: Recalls his FATHER saying that sometimes he and his siblings would be told to go rabbit shooting to provide something for the evening meal. Adds that wild deer were not as prevalent as they became in later years.

191: Of the other town dwellers, he mentions the ROSS (BROS) who brought the SS TAWERA from DUNEDIN and JACK BEER who has a small pastoral run on the other side of the WAIAU, grazing sheep on MT LUXMORE in summer.

207: Affirms that the township consisted only of a few houses and the HOTEL on the lakefront which was a “mass of scrub” even up to the 1940s.

216: Refers again to the SS TAWERA saying that the vessel could travel at about 12 miles an hour so the journey from the wharf to GLADE HOUSE took about three or four hours.

221: Mentions his FATHER (JAMES) and UNCLE (TOM) sometimes had to hang a lantern from a tree at BLUEGUM POINT as a marker for CAPTAIN ROBERTS to find his way home after dark.

230: States his MOTHER was born IRENE TINNOCK in INVERCARGILL and that his maternal GRANDMOTHER came to NEW ZEALAND from the SHETLAND ISLANDS in the 1870s. His maternal GRANDFATHER, he adds, though born in NEW ZEALAND, was also of SCOTTISH origin.

248: Replies that he was the youngest SON of a family of three BOYS (VICTOR and TED) and two GIRLS (MARGARET and IRENE).

257: Recalls his FATHER was a hard worker on the RAILWAYS and a good provider with never a day off even at home which was a quarter acre section with a vegetable garden.

261: “He was very self-sufficient. I suppose he learnt that up here (laughs).” Person recorded: Tom Roberts

264: During the years of the GREAT DEPRESSION (or THE SLUMP), he says there were children in INVERCARGILL who went to school in their bare feet even in winter.

268: Says his MOTHER did not work outside of the home, explaining that “there was no such thing as working women in those days”.

277: Replies that their upbringing was quite strict in the sense that “there was only one boss in the house” and that while there was always food on the table there was not a lot of choice – if they didn’t want to eat what was put in front of them, the only alternative was nothing at all.

283: States he went to SOUTH SCHOOL (primary), INVERCARGILL, which he adds was finally closed by the government in 2004,125 years after it first opened.

290: Recalls that the school roll was about 500 pupils and that in the 1930s they were disciplined with corporal punishment.

296: Says he was always near the top of the class academically adding that he attended SOUTHLAND TECHNICAL COLLEGE (high school) in 1946/47 but opted to leave school at the age of fifteen after securing a job as SHEDHAND in a woolshed in MOSSBURN.

313: Remembers earning about three shillings an hour on that job but when he started (in 1948) his apprenticeship (JOINERY) he got ₤1-19s/8d per week in his hand.

320: Continues that he was taken on by R.RICHARDSON LTD. of INVERCARGILL.

330: Says he worked for RICHARDSONS for about ten years during which time he continued to live at his PARENTS home. Adds he didn’t leave home until he (and his brother) decided to move to TE ANAU where they set up ROBERTS BROS (BUILDERS).

335: Mentions that he did not get MARRIED until 1966 “getting fairly long in the tooth”.

340: On his visits to TE ANAU, says the first time he was in the area was as a six-year old child but has little memory of that. The next time, he adds, was 1947 when his FATHER decided to build a crib (holiday home) by the boat harbour.

348: Explains it was a sub-leased section off LYNWOOD STATION. However, when the town was officially surveyed (for residence), he says they had to move and were offered a section on MOKONUI ST.

352: The quarter-acre section cost ₤78 in 1950/51, he says, and the crib lasted about 50 years having only been pulled down in 2002/3.

359: Mentions there were other cribs in the township. One, he says, was owned by INVERCARGILL-based lawyers, MACALISTERS. Later he listed the surnames of some others, including the MP, J.R. HANNAN, THOMPSON, CAMPBELL, WESNEY, ROBBIE, EXCELL, POTTINGER, JENNINGS, ORBELL, BURNBY and RADFORD (who ran a general store).

364: Before 1951, he explains, the town consisted of the road along the lakefront which led round to MILFORD RD. MOKONUI and MATAI STREETS led off the lake road but only by one block. Similarly, he says, GOVAN DRIVE consisted of only two or three sections.

372: Recalls that in the town there was the HOTEL and a store on the corner owned by MRS (SYLVIA) BAKER, daughter of the HOTEL proprietor, ERNIE GOVAN.

378: Remembers one occasion (in the early 1950s) when he and TED (BROTHER) travelled from INVERCARGILL to TE ANAU in a 1929 AUSTIN-7 and that the trip took about five hours. The road, he says, from WINTON onwards was of a gravel surface and “was a mass of corrugations and potholes…all the way. Just about stripped to bits but we got here eventually”.

385: Explains that government regulations at that time prohibited the purchase of new vehicles so that most cars were “bombs” of more than twenty years old. For example, he says, a 20-year old Model-A Ford would cost about ₤250 at a time when the average annual wage was about ₤700.

397: As a young person, he says, his holidays in TE ANAU were spent hunting and fishing. By then, he adds, deer were plentiful even on the hills immediately surrounding the town

407: In terms of work available in the town, he says, there was only the MINISTRY of PUBLIC WORKS office (construction of roads and public buildings) and in the 1950s, the DEPARTMENT of LANDS & SURVEY began its farm development programme – a major project which broke up the former government grazing runs into smaller, more productive farms.

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004: Explains that when he was younger it was a long-held ambition to live and work in TE ANAU after having had some good times holidaying in the area.

033: Says he had helped one or two people to BUILD cribs in the town and so decided to go into business as a BUILDER with his BROTHER, TED. They formed ROBERT BROS in 1961.

044: Before they got started, though, he says they took a job haymaking at THE PLAINS STATION and it was while there that they were contracted to BUILD a house for the youngest of the MACDONALD family, DAVID MACDONALD who was to be married later that year.

052: Says it was a fortunate coincidence because the job led to other work on the STATION and further afield.

056: That first house, he says, cost about ₤4,000 to BUILD. The ROBERTS went on to CONSTRUCT a further four houses at THE PLAINS…two residences for family members and two for workers on the property.

071: There were only two competitors in the BUILDING TRADE in the BASIN at that time, he says: ALF EXCELL and KEITH GREER.

077: With that first job, he says, he and his BROTHER lived in the shearer’s quarters and meals were provided for them. The next contract they were given was at the neighbouring MARAROA STATION where they worked under similar conditions.

086: As for the DEPARTMENT of LANDS & SURVEY, he says, at first they were turned down because their prices were considered too dear. Adds it took seven years before they won a contract with L&S through the intervention of its chief field officer, GORDON WILSON.

109: Estimates his firm BUILT about forty houses for L&S in the BASIN and as far as MT HAMILTON STATION (near MOSSBURN).

119: Says there were several different plans to work from and at first the houses were WEATHERBOARD (TIMBER), then BRICK was popular until the 1970s when HARDIPLANK (TIMBER) was used.

130: Also at first all the flooring was of T&G design (TONGUE and GROOVE) until 1969 when the PARTICLE-BOARD style was introduced.

137: In the early days, he says, his workers did everything from DIGGING the FOUNDATIONS and MIXING CONCRETE to putting on the ROOF. But now, he continues, much of the work is sub-contracted so only a couple of men are needed for each job instead of four.

156: The TIMBER, he says, came from TUATAPERE SAWMILLS while everything else came from INVERCARGILL. At first it was shipped by train to LUMSDEN and trucked to TE ANAU. But in the end, he says, he preferred collecting the goods himself from INVERCARGILL.

183: BEECH or RED PINE were the main types of TIMBER they used, preferring the latter. However, RADIATA PINE used today is far superior still, he says, because it is purpose-grown and is therefore straight and clean.

197: Remembers that first house they BUILT at THE PLAINS took about five months to complete after a lot of hard work.

214: By the end of 1961, he says, the firm had hired its first employee (by the surname of HODGES). Through the years they brought a few workers from INVERCARGILL to TE ANAU and helped them get started.

225: It was a decade, he adds, when many organisations became established in TE ANAU. For example, in 1964 he was an inaugural member of the local branch of the LIONS CLUB (an international fundraising group).

228: In 1967, he and TED were founding members of the MARAKURA YACHT CLUB. It was formed, he says, out of a group of people who had belonged to the INVERCARGILL YACHT CLUB.

234: Replies they were “just keen on YACHTING” and that “there was a beautiful stretch of water here”. Adds that MARAKURA was the original name of the township before TE ANAU took predominance.

244: From an initial membership of about 20, he says there are now about 100 YACHT CLUB members.

253: The TE ANAU CLUB, he says, was formed (1968/69) by a group of townsfolk who wanted a social club that was separate from the THC-operated HOTEL. In those days, he says, it was illegal to run such a venture but the local police “shut their eyes and we used to meet every FRIDAY night round at the old football pavilion”.

260: Says he was a foundation member of the CLUB which was eventually housed in a BUILDING purchased at the close of the HYDRO POWER SCHEME at WEST ARM (MANAPOURI). Since then new premises were BUILT on the site at the corner of JACKSON STREET and POP ANDREWS DRIVE.

278: Says he was on the committee for thirteen years, two of them as CLUB PRESIDENT. At the YACHT CLUB, he was on the committee for about nine years and spent two as COMMODORE.

291: Takes the view that living in a community requires some commitment “you can’t just sit back and do nothing”.

297: Returning to the BUILDING TRADE, he says over the years it went through its ups and downs economically. 1968 was a particularly bad year, he recalls.

301: Another bad spell was after the share market crash of 1987.

305: When he moved to TE ANAU in 1961, he says he first lived in a crib owned by TED which was situated on GUNN ST. A year later he bought a section in the same street.

310: Mentions he built a four-bedroom house with office and garage on the section which cost him ₤260. He and his family lived there for nineteen years until they bought another section in DUNCAN ST.

319: Replies that he met his WIFE, ROWENA (née HUMPHRIES), on a blind date. Adds that her family originally lived at TOKANUI before moving to INVERCARGILL.

329: They married in 1966. “By that time I’d accumulated a few assets.”

334: Forward-tracking to 1986, he says he built the new home in DUNCAN ST, bought a new (HOLDEN) COMMODORE in 1987 and booked a family holiday in AUSTRALIA the same year.

341: When they got back from the holiday, he remembers: “It was tough, there was no work.”

345: Recalls the firm managed to secure a contract to BUILD a large residential property for the cost of “just the labour” so that he could keep his workers (his SON, THOMAS and one other) employed for six months.

352: Still no work on the horizon, he decided to BUILD a “spec” (investment) house. To do so, he bought the section on the corner of BOWEN ST and LUXMORE DR and BUILT the house on the front. “But I couldn’t sell it.”

357: “The only thing that saved me was I had no mortgages.”

360: It transpired that a land agent, ALAN BRADLEY, was able to find a buyer for their own home in DUNCAN ST, so they sold it, lived in the “spec” house, sub-divided the land and BUILT another house at the back of it – their present home.

364: “After that, everything just fell into place.”

370: Replies that his CHILDREN are GLENYS, THOMAS, STEPHANIE and JANINE and only his SON continues to live in TE ANAU.

390: Referring to the TE ANAU of the 1960s, he says there was a boost in local employment and the streets were being opened up. “Nothing like there is now, when you look at the development that’s gone on round here in the last two or three years it’s incredible. You wonder what everyone’s going to do, there’s certainly no work for them.”

398: Mentions that the main highway (SH94) between TE ANAU and MOSSBURN was sealed in 1956, although the TE ANAU to MILFORD SOUND section was not completely sealed until much later (into the early 1990s).

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006: States that he did not get to know many of the people who worked on the MANAPOURI HYDRO SCHEME PROJECT, (a large construction project at DOUBTFUL SOUND) explaining that the workers had their own short-term purpose-BUILT village (at SUPPLY BAY near MANAPOURI).

011: Says the workers also had a recreational building at WEST ARM (the base site for the project work) and that the same building is now the premises of the MARAKURA YACHT CLUB house.

025: Of the houses that formed the HYDRO VILLAGE, he says that afterwards the ROBERTS BROS was involved in shifting a “swag of them to different places”.

030: Describes the houses as “pre-fabs” which made them easy to shift.

038: Of the people he recalls that were living in TE ANAU in the early 1960s, he again mentions COLIN TAURI (who initiated setting up the LIONS CLUB), TERRY GILLIGAN of TE ANAU TRANSPORT and GEORGE RADFORD, who ran a general store on the corner of MOKOROA ST and LAKEFRONT DRIVE.

063: Interruption due to telephone call

065: Replies that GERRY HANRAETS was running the TE ANAU HOTEL (still owned and operated by the government under the TOURISM HOTEL CORPORATION or THC).

071: Of the town centre, he says there was a restaurant where the WESTPAC BANK now stands and the present FOUR-SQUARE store was run by the SHELTONS before it was taken over by the DAGGS.

075: There was also SPEDEN’S SPORTS DEPOT and the POLICE STATION was situated where there is now a restaurant.

081: Mentions there was a LAUNDRY run by DICK VEENSTRA and her partner, STEENA MOOYNAN, two EUROPEAN women who eventually left the district. As well as a laundry, they ran a bakery next door to it.

087: On the opposite side of the street, he says, the LUXMORE HOTEL had been a restaurant owned by PETE SULJEMANOVIC.

098: As for his CHILDREN’S schooling, he says they went to both the local primary, TE ANAU SCHOOL, and secondary, FIORDLAND COLLEGE.

107: While the original primary school was BUILT in 1938, it was replaced in the 1960s by the present BRICK-EXTERIOR premises.

135: Considers TE ANAU was an excellent place to bring up children. “Can’t think of anywhere better.”

147: On the tourism industry upon which much of the town now depends, he argues that it was the 1970s that saw real expansion in this sector.

165: As an offshoot, he says, there is currently an endless demand for BUILDERS. “I was born twenty years too soon.”

170: Interview ends

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