Interviewee: Vernon Albert (Vern) Thompson Date: 30/June/2007

Interviewer: Morag Forrester

Abstractor: Morag Forrester

Tape counter: Sony TCM 939

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006: States he is VERNON ALBERT THOMPSON born in 1944 in INVERCARGILL, but grew up on a 1000-acre farm in the ORAWIA area of WESTERN SOUTHLAND.

021: Originally part of MERIVALE STATION, he says that when his PARENTS first moved there from the city, the land was almost all native bush and scrub and his FATHER spent years turning it into a productive unit.

036: Says his FATHER was ROBERT THOMPSON who had a MILK RUN in INVERCARGILL before moving to the farm. He goes on to describe how his FATHER had a small truck with large milk cans on the back from which milk and cream were ladled into customers’ BILLY CANS at their back doors.

047: The milk, he says, was produced at a dairy farm in WEST PLAINS and his FATHER delivered to homes in NORTH INVERCARGILL.

065: Replies that his MOTHER was EDITH (neé SCOTT) whose parents lived at OTAHU, adding that his maternal GRANDFATHER owned several thousand acres of land at OTAHU FLAT and that his MOTHER and her siblings were all taught as young children at a school on the property.

082: Before she married his FATHER, he says, his MOTHER worked for the government tourism agency on the MILFORD TRACK – at GLADE HOUSE – in 1933/34 and was therefore familiar with FIORDLAND.

093: States he is one of a family of five CHILDREN and has two BROTHERS and two SISTERS. In consecutive order from the eldest down he names them as SYLVIA, CATHERINE, BILL and NELSON (deceased).

102: Affirms that as the youngest, he was constantly teased by his siblings especially in the dark: “spooks and things like that…now I’ve got no fear with all sorts of things like that...DEER or animals…”

110: His schooling, he replies, was at ORAWIA PRIMARY followed by SOUTHLAND TECHNICAL COLLEGE and on leaving SCHOOL he took up an apprenticeship (1961-1965) in the BUILDING TRADE through his first employer, MCKENZIE & LIVINGSTON.

130: Estimates the firm built about seventy houses for the MANAPOURI HYDRO VILLAGE and about 600 huts for DEEP COVE and WEST ARM.

146: On completion of his apprenticeship, he says, he worked a short while for a BUILDING firm (FLETCHER) in TE ANAU on reconstruction of the fire-damaged TE ANAU HOTEL, in 1965.

156: Replies that he began DEERHUNTING in 1958, although mentions going on HUNTING trips at the age of about eleven (c.1955).

167: His first RIFLE, he says, was “an old lever-action cowboy RIFLE: 44-40…that’s what I shot my first DEER with”.

177: At that time, he says, the practise was to SKIN and TAIL the animals. “We used to sell the TAILS to the CHINESE LAUNDRY in INVERCARGILL. They would pay (between) 2s/6d and 5s.”

185: Recalls SKINNING the hides off the animals was a difficult task because being only weekend HUNTERS, they couldn’t adequately dry the SKINS. He goes on to describe how the SKIN was removed and then dried on makeshift rails between trees.

199: During those early HUNTING years, he says, he and his BROTHERS concentrated on the BLUECLIFFS area (near TUATAPERE) and on the HUMP RANGE where they camped on the edge of the bushline by the side of an old grazing trail.

210: Explains that they didn’t have any tents so slept in the open covered only by their jackets. He finally did get a sleeping bag (a FAIRYDOWN priced at about £10) but only after agreeing to do some extra work on the farm. “Better than sleeping on a chaff sack and a blanket (laughs).”

232: Replies that in the late 1950s the condition of the DEER in the BLUECLIFFS area was very poor – on average underweight at about 70lbs. Adds that he and his BROTHERS broadened their territory to LAKE MONOWAI where they used a 15ft outboard-motor boat to get from beach to beach.

244: Recalls that in the summer they mainly went after the DEER VELVET (the soft tissue of newly-grown ANTLERS on the STAGS), SHOOTING up to 100lbs of it, especially as the price then was £1/lb. He further explains how the VELVET was separated from the rest of the animal.

265: Says the average STAG they SHOT had between four and six pounds of VELVET on it, adding that they were selective about which animals were KILLED. The VELVET SEASON, he says, also posed limits because it only occurs from mid-NOVEMBER to mid-JANUARY, after which the tissue becomes more brittle. Person recorded: Vern Thompson

271: In 1962, he says, the price (for VELVET) jumped to £3/lb and there were several outlets buying the product, including the newly-established VENISON FACTORY at MOSSBURN (set up by PADDY KILGARIFF and TED THOMAS).

282: Mentions that the same FACTORY also bought the DEER MEAT, at about 1s/lb at first, rising to about 1s3d/lb. “And if you SHOT a good STAG…with a good set of VELVET on it…you made really good money.” The price of fuel, he adds, was only 1s/gallon.

291: In comparison, he replies, he was earning £7 a fortnight in wages earned though his BUILDER’S apprenticeship. “That’s why I headed for the hills on a weekend because I could treble what I could make working on a job.”

300: Explains that much of his HUNTING was carried out on the open tops, except during the ROAR in APRIL, adding that he also quartered the animals to make it easier to PACK them out. Describes quartering.

312: States that a set of HIND quarters was a heavy enough weight when carrying out from the tops on PACK FRAMES. It was not unusual, he continues, to carry out up to 150lbs of MEAT on one FRAME walking about three miles and often SHOOTING and GUTTING other DEER he came across on the way.

327: Explains that GUTTING is removing the animal’s stomach (guts) before carrying out the CARCASS.

330: As well as LAKE MONOWAI, he says, he and his BROTHERS also HUNTED around BORLAND and further north on PADDOCK HILL at DUNCRAIGEN STATION.

333: Before them, he says, government CULLERS worked the same areas until 1955. This was followed by a gap, he continues, for a few years during which time the DEER numbers increased.

342: Replies that he and his BROTHERS always HUNTED together during their earlier expeditions but after he completed his apprenticeship he often went by himself while the other two worked as a pair. [He later added that the first commercial VENISON operation in FIORDLAND was started by EVAN MEREDITH (a former FS RANGER turned VENISON FACTORY owner) at DUSKY and BREAKSEA SOUNDS in MARCH/APRIL 1965. Providing a large JETBOAT for them, MEREDITH employed SHOOTERS, FRANKE WOLFE and NELSON THOMPSON to work the immediate hinterland in those areas. The VENISON was flown out to TE ANAU by AMPHIBIAN AIRCRAFT which was PILOTED by JOHNNY HASSETT.]

350: States that after JETBOATS were introduced, NELSON built his own version which was well-used on HUNTING trips. He also remembers that when they used the outboard motor boat on the WAIAU RIVER, (a fast-flowing waterway before DAM CONTROL GATES were built in the late 1960s) people thought they were crazy.

367: In 1965, he says, having completed his apprenticeship he moved from ORAWIA to TE ANAU. The main reason, he adds, was because of an increase in the number of DEERHUNTERS around LAKE MONOWAI, attracted by the increasing financial returns, which meant him having to go further afield.

375: At that time, he continues, there were up to twenty HUNTERS chasing VENISON and they operated a sort of unspoken agreement to steer clear of an area that was being HUNTED by someone else at any one time. “If there were too many people in TE ANAU we’d go to MANAPOURI and HUNT down there.”

382: States that some of the HUNTERS were “weekenders” but others were full-time commercial GROUNDHUNTERS who often arranged to have the CARCASSES flown out by FIXED WING AIRCRAFT to the VENISON FACTORIES in TE ANAU or MOSSBURN.

387: The flight operators, he replies, were SOUTHERN SCENIC AIRWAYS which later became TOURIST AIR TRAVEL based at QUEENSTOWN and TE ANAU. Their regular runs, he adds, were the HOLLYFORD and PYKE RIVER VALLEYS, LAKE MCKERROW, the KAIPO VALLEY and BIG BAY.

395: Explains that the LIGHT AIRCRAFT used was mainly for scenic flights but the HUNTERS commissioned them to freight the VENISON. The PILOTS, he says, often carried the MEAT to an airstrip at a road end where it would be picked up by truck for transport to the FACTORIES.

401: The first type of plane he commissioned to do this type of work, he says, was a CESSNA 185 FLOATPLANE which was able to carry up to 900lbs of MEAT (about eight CARCASSES). Later, he hired a CESSNA 206 which could take about eleven DEER. “They’d leave the seats in TE ANAU ’cos they’d be doing a VENISON run.”

412: Talks about some of the other FIXED WING models that were hired by HUNTERS.

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011: Continuing the discussion about airlifting the VENISON out, he says that in 1967/68 he and his BROTHERS moved their GROUNDHUNTING activities to the DUSKY/BREAKSEA SOUNDS area. With the FLOATPLANES, he says, they often had to watch against a plane getting stranded by low tide while they were loading it up with VENISON from the CHILLER.

020: It cost about £30 to hire a FLOATPLANE as freight carrier for the VENISON from DUSKY, he says: the MEAT was bringing returns of about 1s 3d/lb.

043: The owner of the FIORDLAND VENISON FACTORY, EVAN MEREDITH, he says, contracted him to become a commercial GROUNDHUNTER in the BREAKSEA area. It was a job he was keen to accept since it meant being able to spend time in an area where there were thought to be the last remnants of a MOOSE herd.

062: Three years previously, he explains, he and his BROTHERS had been in the nearby SEAFORTH VALLEY where the last MOOSE had been SHOT. Describes the difficulties of accessing that area via LAKE HAUROKO.

079: It was on their way back out, he says, that they came across signs of MOOSE in the forest in three different vicinities. While they would have stayed on to investigate the signs further, he continues, they did not have enough supplies and were down to surviving on drinking water so had to abandon the pursuit.

099: Replies that although they sometimes ate a few cheaper cuts of VENISON, usually the MEAT fetched too good a price for them to actually have it as “tucker”.

107: When he worked at BREAKSEA, he says, he stayed there for about three months non-stop. Supplies and fuel were brought in and the VENISON came out with them on the return journey.

117: Mentions that the CHILLER, a blast FREEZER where the VENISON was stored, often ended up packed to overflowing with MEAT. It was powered by diesel generator, he says, and on one occasion when there were more than seventy CARCASSES, they had to be rotated from top to bottom to prevent some of them thawing out and rotting.

131: Recalls that a lot of fishermen in the area would bring in DEER MEAT. “They’d be steaming up the coast, park up somewhere, see a DEER on the beach, SHOOT it and freeze it in the hold then drop it off.” But the fishermen were not a real threat, commercially.

139: His biggest tally in one day at BREAKSEA, he continues, was about fourteen CARCASSES, adding that the logistics of carrying them out prevented SHOOTING too many. “We tried to SHOOT as many as we could as close to the water’s edge but it wasn’t easy…most of the time you’d have to spend all day PACKING them out.”

147: As well as his two BROTHERS and him there was a fourth HUNTER, GEORGE HONE, who stayed in the former DEER CULLER’S HUT next to which was housed the CHILLER. Says HONE didn’t do much HUNTING but kept the CHILLER in working order.

171: Having stayed in that two-bunk HUT with HONE for about three months, he moved out when his BROTHERS joined him at BREAKSEA and all three made base camp further up the SOUND.

183: A typical day, he says, was to start HUNTING at daybreak and not finish till just after dark. During that time, one of them would have to ferry CARCASSES down to the CHILLER by boat. The biggest problem, he adds, was having enough fuel for the boat and the generator.

197: Their diet, he replies, consisted of whatever meat and vegetables they’d brought in with them. This was supplemented with fish, shellfish and crayfish and when they ran out of bread, they made their own. “Our biggest problem…all our cooking was done outside the tent, open fire…so you’re eating sandflies and stuff with it.”

214: There were no gas cookers either, but occasionally they would boil up a billy can on a petrol-fired cooker. Driftwood was used on the open fire.

222: After work and a meal, he says, they bedded down till daybreak and started all over again. On foul weather days “we’d just read books or tell yarns and things like that…we used to get some horrendous storms in there so we’d just park up and wouldn’t do a lot”.

246: Mentions that for a brief period another HUNTER, KEVIN MARTYN, worked with them at BREAKSEA which was a time when they upped the competition between themselves to see who could produce the highest tallies for DEER.

254: These occurred, he says, during the annual ROAR (mating season for the DEER) when they each SHOT about fifty animals over the two-week period. On one occasion at THIRD COVE “I actually SHOT seven STAGS and I’d only shifted about fifty metres”.

269: All the DEER they SHOT at VANCOUVER ARM, he says, were in very good condition because they’d browsed on foliage that grew on soil with a high mineral content. Whereas at RESOLUTION ISLAND, he continues, they might SHOOT about twenty (small) DEER but “the legs would break in your hands” from lack of calcium.

285: After just one more trip into BREAKSEA, he says, he kept his HUNTING activity to LAKE TE ANAU where the DEER were more than twice the weight of those on the coast again due to better feeding areas.

303: At the end of the season at BREAKSEA: “(We) had all these DEER hanging out of the trees and piled up on the beach and a FREEZER full…we kept two FLOATPLANES and an AMPHIBIAN (AIRCRAFT) going all day.”

310: On the AMPHIBIAN’S last trip in and out that day, he says, the weather deteriorated so they managed to load up their gear and it was flown out with the plane due to return to pick them up. By radio communication from TE ANAU, he says, they were told that the plane’s tail wheel broke on landing at the airstrip in the town. He later added that the AMPHIBIAN registered ZK-AVM was piloted by PETER BANKS.

319: “We spent sixteen days in there…we had one onion and two potatoes and a couple of tins of baked beans.” Any food that had been left in the FREEZER had been emptied into the SOUND to make the white-ware as light as possible for carting out by plane.

324: “We just lived off fish, birdlife, whatever we could find.” Each day they hoped the weather would clear enough to allow AIRCRAFT access but it didn’t happen for sixteen days. Recalls that although they ate a lot of BLUE COD and TERYAKI he’d lost about 28lbs (12.5kg) by the time he finally got back to TE ANAU. “I came out of there pretty lean and pretty angry…that we couldn’t get out.”

347: Replies that during the two-week ROAR at BREAKSEA, he SHOT a total of fifty-one STAGS, each one weighing between 180lbs and 200lbs.

357: Mentions that he wasn’t flown into the SOUND but went via LAKE MANAPOURI to the WILMOT PASS ROAD into DEEP COVE from where he travelled by dinghy to BLANKET BAY on DOUBTFUL SOUND.

364: Continues that he hitched a ride on a fishing boat down to BREAKSEA SOUND and his destination of BEACH HARBOUR. He recalls having good rapport with the fishermen who worked that area, swapping notes on DEER activity.

379: Replies it was1968, that CRAYFISHING hit its peak. Some of the vessels, he recalls, had decks “red with CRAYFISH”. Mentions his BROTHERS had started commercial fishing from MILFORD SOUND so that they did a bit of CRAYFISHING at the same time as GROUNDHUNTING.

387: For a brief spell, he says, they fished from TE WAE WAE BAY on the south coast but after building a bigger JETBOAT (21ft) they worked further north through MILFORD, the KAIPO VALLEY and around MARTINS BAY.

392: Explains that the JETBOAT was built out of a standard hull from which they crafted a “day boat”. Their base, he says, was not at MILFORD but at CASCADE CREEK in the EGLINTON VALLEY.

399: Mentions that all the boats they used were made by themselves either from a “kit-set” or drawing plans. “We actually built quite a number of boats in my FATHER’S woolshed at the farm…managed to build them in there and…(sometimes had to) open the wall up to get them out.”

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008: Continuing the discussion on boat-building, he says he and his BROTHERS had to ensure that whatever vessel they crafted it would have to be light enough for pulling up a beach single-handedly.

023: In later years when they HUNTED along FIORDLAND’S coastal shoreline, he says, NELSON built a seaworthy 18ft vessel which meant they could access other SOUNDS. Most of the time, he adds, they HUNTED the immediate hinterland, walking about two hours in and back out again.

044: Having a photographic memory, he suggests, helped in finding his way back out, adding that it was a gift enhanced by years of HUNTING DEER and having to remember the whereabouts of any animals he had SHOT so that he knew where to pick them up on his way out.

057: “You’d recognise a tree that had a knot on the side of it or a leaning tree or a clay bank… you had to visually recognise all those areas so you’d come back to it.”

090: As DEERHUNTING increased through the 1960s, the animals became more cautious, which he recalls happening at LAKE MONOWAI. “You had to run into some of those areas otherwise they’d beat you. They’d hear the boat switch off and they were gone. All their habits changed and they got so spooky that they made it hard HUNTING.”

101: Explains how he had to alter his approach. But still on the coast, he says, the animals hadn’t encountered too many HUNTERS so that “you’d walk in to a DEER…they’d just stand and look at you”.

126: Discussion moves on to the arrival of HELICOPTER HUNTING in SOUTHERN FIORDLAND which he thinks first took place in 1967 (but later corrected this to about 1963 in the south and about 1965 in TE ANAU) around the LAKE MONOWAI area led by EVAN MEREDITH – owner/operator of the TE ANAU VENISON FACTORY.

134: Says MEREDITH leased a BELL 47 HELICOPTER – ZK-HAQ – (from HELICOPTERS NZ in NELSON), piloted by PETER TAIT, and although they SHOT a few from the machine, he says their main operation involved GROUNDHUNTERS being brought in to work an area. Whatever DEER they SHOT were lifted out by CHOPPER to a truck stop for transportation by road to TE ANAU. He later added that it was a short-lived enterprise which began at the beginning of NOVEMBER, 1967 and was brought to a halt within a couple of weeks due to the machine being wrecked in a crash. However, similar HELICOPTER-assisted DEER RECOVERY was being carried out in other areas of NEW ZEALAND after it was reportedly first trialled in 1963 by (SIR) TIM WALLIS, WATTIE CAMERON and ROBERT WILSON in the MATUKITUKI VALLEY on the WEST COAST. They hired a BELL 47 piloted by CANADIAN, MILT SILLS, and took eleven SHOOTERS into the VALLEY. 220 DEER were SHOT on that occasion but due to poor weather conditions, only half were brought out.

137: Continues that it wasn’t until about 1969 that HELICOPTER-assisted HUNTING was re-introduced in FIORDLAND – this time by TIM WALLIS’ company, LUGGATE GAME PACKERS (LGP). Again, WALLIS had started a major DEER HUNTING operation earlier than this after the FIORDLAND NATIONAL PARK BOARD in 1967 granted him exclusive rights to use HELICOPTERS for commercial HUNTING on a three-year term. He had won against other tenders because of plans to use two large vessels as freezer/processing ships. These were anchored in the SOUNDS, acting as holds for the hundreds of CARCASSES carried out by LGP HELICOPTERS. The operation came to a near- standstill around mid-1968 after two HELICOPTER crashes within months of each other wrote off the machines and left WALLIS recovering in hospital, fighting for his life. The following year after a slow return to mobility, WALLIS was back in charge and had bought replacement HELICOPTERS for his PILOTS, including BILL BLACK.

169: After clarifying a few details about the MEREDITH/TAIT operation, he says the SHOOTERS would ‘GUT’ all the DEER and drag them into different piles for the HELICOPTER to pick them up, about six at a time slung on a hook beneath the body of the machine.

176: States that as a GROUNDHUNTER, he was mainly based around TE ANAU and MANAPOURI at that stage with some forays into LAKE HAUROKO.

185: Replies that his BROTHERS, NELSON and BILL, had tried to buy their own HELICOPTER in 1967 but were turned down. He explains that it was one of the reasons they took up commercial fishing so that they could raise the capital to buy a machine.

189: They were not allowed by the regulating authorities to buy a HELICOPTER, he says, on the grounds that they were not an operating VENISON company but just two individuals wanting to buy a machine. It wasn’t until there were several other solo operators in the INDUSTRY that they were granted a licence to buy a HELICOPTER, he says, by which time they were able to buy a new machine – a HUGHES 300 – with which they went out on their own RECOVERY operation in 1972.

202: Of the THOMPSONS fishing activities, he says their base was a caravan at MILFORD SOUND. They had a FREEZER at the HOSTEL in the CAMPING GROUND (run by ARTHUR JOHNSTON) to store whatever crayfish they caught and when it became full, they took the haul by the UTE-load to BLUFF.

213: Mentions that on a good day they often brought in about eight bags (an average day was five or six) of crayfish TAILS which would have earned them a good price.

219: They only worked, he says, “in amongst the breakers really” in shallow water rather than deep sea fishing. They would be able to put some (lobster) pots in behind a reef, he adds, and the next day there might be as many as a hundred crayfish in one container.

242: Comments that they were the first to do so and it was some years later that others followed their lead. Says they couldn’t do much about others moving in on their area if they’d been given a legal permit to fish.

258: The crayfish were taken to BLUFF, he replies, via the MILFORD ROAD through TE ANAU and INVERCARGILL – a journey of about four hours.

267: States that while they were crayfishing, he was still commercially MEATHUNTING around TE ANAU, starting each year in APRIL through the winter till SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER. During the summer he went back to working as a BUILDER.

274: As a HUNTER, he replies, the only authorisation he required was a RIFLE licence to HUNT in the FNP. Previously, he says, a BLOCK system operated where the PARK BOARD granted each HUNTER the right to work only one area.

282: The arrival of the HELICOPTERS on the HUNTING scene, he says, was good for the GROUNDHUNTERS because it forced the DEER to browse below the bushline and even the valley floors or lake shorelines.

290: The price for VENISON by then averaged about $3/kg (decimal currency having been introduced in 1967). “I can remember SHOOTING a STAG in the VELVET; I got $1200 for it.”

304: Mentions that the TAILS fetched a price of 1cent/lb for the HUNTER, which was “peanuts” compared with the actual market price from overseas buyers. “The TAILS and the VELVET were the most valuable part of the DEER.” Sinews, he adds, got $12/kg.

311: Interview closes and tape stopped.

[A second recording took place on 13 JULY 2007 at the same venue, the participant’s home in TE ANAU. The discussion opens on the period in the VENISON INDUSTRY after the FNP Board opened up the licensing rights (1976) to allow several HELICOPTER operators to work on RECOVERY throughout the 1.2 million-hectare NATIONAL PARK.]

321: At the start of the new licensing, he says, there were still enough DEER for rich pickings to be made by the various competing operators. But this soon changed (within a couple of years), making it uneconomic especially for those who were unfamiliar with the terrain or the habits of their prey.

329: Recalls some of the newer operators were former employees of LGP/ALPINE HELICOPTERS who opted to start up on their own.

336: The type of HELICOPTERS they bought or leased, he says, came from the US and were mainly HUGHES 300s and 500s and also some HILLERS. He comments that while some worked without incident, there were quite a few operators who were killed in accidents partly because the machines were not designed for that type of work.

342: Explains this further saying that some of the machines were overloaded with MEAT, or had a lot of engine problems.

346: Replies that he continued to work as a GROUNDHUNTER as well as becoming a SHOOTER on a HELICOPTER.

353: He mentions that many of the HUNTERS started with ex-military RIFLES - .308 FNs which had a heavy weight. They replaced these with ARMALITE 2D-3s, which were easier to manoeuvre and more accurate. He explains that a lighter weapon made it easier to swing round in the HELICOPTER and aim at the DEER.

364: States that they usually tried to target the animal’s head or neck to ensure a better price for clean-shot MEAT.

370: Mentions that when the DEER numbers began dwindling, they had to try to SHOOT between trees or in other more difficult situations. “When I was working with DEREK COOK we had to SHOOT down through the trees…and you’d have to climb down trees to RECOVER them…at the end of the day your…muscles were aching a bit because you’re up and down trees like monkeys.”

381: Recalls that some of the operators allowed their SHOOTERS to ride on the long STROP but he and COOK had a policy against that because of the high fatality rate from this method. The rope would break or snag on a rock plunging its load, including the SHOOTER, to the ground.

388: The alternative method, he explains, was to locate a suitable tree with a few limbs on it and while the HELICOPTER hovered, the SHOOTER would disembark onto the SKID, hook the long STROP beneath the machine and then climb down the tree. On the ground, the SHOOTER hooked the CARCASS onto the other end of the STROP, climb back up the tree, onto the SKID and back into the HELICOPTER which took off with its load.

394: Sometimes, he remembers, it was difficult if a tree didn’t have enough limbs towards the bottom of its trunk because although he could jump the last fifty metres to the ground, it was getting back up again that was the challenge.

409: Meantime, he says, the PILOT would have his head out the door to look down and see what the SHOOTER was doing on the ground while keeping the machine in a hover position above.

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005: States that the HELICOPTER operator bought all the AMMUNITION and it was part of the SHOOTER’S job to sight the RIFLE and ensure all was in working order.

010: Mentions that his BROTHER, NELSON, bought a re-loading press which meant they could re-use spent AMMUNITION – much cheaper than buying it new. For greater accuracy, he says, they sometimes bought ex-military AMMUNITION and replaced the military slugs with “soft-nosed” BULLETS.

019: Replies that DEREK COOK came from the GORE district and before working in FIORDLAND, he had been a top-dressing PILOT followed by work with HELICOPTERS NZ in NELSON. Adds that COOK had bought NELSON’S first HELICOPTER and it was in this that he and the participant did their RECOVERY work.

031: About five years later, he says, COOK bought a HUGHES 500. The two machines were very different, he says, in several ways including speed and weight-bearing capacity. A 300, he explains, could carry a maximum of seven DEER whereas the 500 could take up to a dozen. The 300, he adds, was good to SHOOT from but its lack of speed meant it couldn’t chase the animals as quickly as the 500 especially uphill or on open ground.

055: The 300s, he continues, began with an A-model, then B, then C. Some of the earlier versions, he says, had problems with the CAM in the motor – it would drop a valve and sometimes when that happened the machine would crash into the trees. Although it was possible to try to auto-rotate down to a beach, he says quite a few of his colleagues were killed due to this type of engine failure.

069: Representatives from the HUGHES CORPORATION in the US, he says, visited NEW ZEALAND in an effort to find out why these crashes were happening. They saw, then, what the machines were being used for and the types of load they were carrying and re-designed the CAM in the engine which, he says, solved the problem.

075: Describes the 300s as probably more versatile than the other popular ones at that time such as the BELL 47 and the HILLER models which were both more cumbersome.

080: It was still the pattern, he says, to remove the door on the SHOOTER’S side of the machine and sometimes the one on the PILOT’S side was also removed.

088: The 300s carried only the two but the 500s could take a third person who was usually a GUTTER (someone whose job was to prepare the CARCASSES for pickup) thus allowing the PILOT and SHOOTER to concentrate on their targets and increase the day’s tally.

098: With the door removed, he denies having felt any more vulnerable while they were flying about but admits that a couple of times when the machine did a tight turn “I nearly went out”.

105: He knew of some cases where the SHOOTER had to jump out of a HELICOPTER to reduce the weight so that it could have more lift and, while it wasn’t common, he knew of one SHOOTER who “probably jumped out from 50ft…to save the HELICOPTER”.

127: By the 1970s, with dwindling numbers and increased competition, the INDUSTRY moved into a new phase – LIVE CAPTURE of DEER which were then turned into FARM animals and run as STOCK units in the same way as SHEEP and CATTLE. He says he first tried BULLDOGGING but “we wouldn’t tackle STAGS…they were always SPIKERS, HINDS or FAWNS”.

133: Next came the (TRANQUILLIZER) DART PISTOL, he continues, but it was too time-consuming because they had to wait for the drug to take effect before they could approach the darted animal.

139: Along came the NET GUN which underwent several modifications including one devised and patented by his BROTHER, NELSON. The first of its kind was made by GOODWIN MCNUTT on the WEST COAST, he says, who created a NET FRAME which on SHOOTING out, dropped over the DEER. “It worked okay but you had to be in the right country, flat country where you could tire the DEER out and drop the NET over them.”

144: Other methods were schemed and tried and then, he says, NELSON thought there had to be an easier way with a hand-held NET GUN so over a period of about eighteen months he came up with a three-barrelled GUN which contained a mesh NET and weights.

157: Test trials were conducted at the local rubbish dump in TE ANAU where he anchored the NET GUN onto the back of a UTE and fired it to calculate the correct loadings to try and avert the ‘kickback’ that occurred on earlier models.

164: Because of the weights being fired, he says, several SHOOTERS had sustained arm and shoulder injuries and he remembers having to hold the GUN on his knees rather than against his shoulder to avoid the same problem.

167: NELSON, he recalls, came up with an upgraded version of his prototype which had shorter barrels and therefore didn’t have the same recall punch. The NETS were also lighter – made from KEVLAR – and stronger so that they had a further range. Instead of three barrels, he says, this GUN had four and “it was so much easier to use”.

183: Replies that several people were coming up with their own versions of the NET GUN and some were “very dangerous” because they weren’t designed properly.

191: Back to NELSON’S version, he says the NETS measuring 30ft x 20ft were packed into a canister strapped with the GUN. Last to go into the barrel, he adds, were the weights. A blank cartridge fired from the GUN chamber blew all the weights out equally at the same time.

204: Again several trial and error attempts were made to get the right shell, he says. NELSON ended up using an empty .308 shell case, filled it with gunpowder, crimped the end of it and that was the blank charge to fire the NET. “It took a lot of developing to get the right powder charge.”

212: The NET mesh size, he says, averaged between 6in and 8in – enough to allow the DEER to get its head through and become entangled in the rest of the material. He describes some colourful examples of when things didn’t go according to plan and the DEER got away, NET dragging alongside. Person recorded: Vern Thompson

225: At the start of a day’s SHOOT, he says, he would ensure there were about a half dozen pre-packed NET canisters in the HELICOPTER so they were ready to clip onto the barrels of the ‘THOMPSON’ GUN.

234: “That was the easiest and most humane way of catching LIVE DEER…with the NET GUN because they very seldom got injured.”

242: After netting the animal, he says, the SHOOTER jumped out of the HELICOPTER a distance of about 8-10ft and grabbed the DEER, put a couple of DOG COLLARS on its legs, strapped these into a strop, lifted the animal onto higher ground, hooked the strop under the machine and climbed back in and away back to TE ANAU.

252: Another aid was a DEER BAG which initially was an old woolsack into which they’d put the DEER, ensuring its head was free, and carried it back that way under the HELICOPTER. The reason, he says, was because a lot of animals died from hypothermia as they were being carried underneath, especially during the colder months.

268: With the HUGHES 500s, he says, they carried up to six animals – some even in the back seats behind the PILOT and CREW, recalling one instance when “we had a HIND standing up in the back one time…with NELSON, he had one standing there lookin’ out…(laughs)”.

282: Replies that sometimes it would be an hour before they got back to base with their haul. At the TE ANAU airfield, he says, they had a “dark box” – an enclosed PEN - where they housed the DEER on arrival.

288: From there the animals were moved to DEER YARDS – at GEORGE O’BRIEN’S farm on KAKAPO ROAD until they later took them to the family farm at ORAWIA or to a block of land they owned in the TE ANAU BASIN.

293: All the operators, he says, had a similar setup although some would just leave the animals in the dark box from where the buyer would pick them up direct and truck them to whichever farm they were destined for.

297: At first, he replies, the price for a LIVE DEER was about $500 each, rose to about $1000 and increased still further to peak at about $3000 by the late 1970s/early 1980s. “Most of the DEER I caught I was getting…at that time…$1500, $2000 for them.”

307: The reason for the high price was because of the increasing demand for WILD DEER as DEER FARMING became more popular and there was a growing need to establish breeding units. He further explains that it was a fast way for farmers to get into the expanding overseas VENISON market.

322: It was a quicker way for those in the RECOVERY INDUSTRY to make good money because it gave much better returns than MEATHUNTING which had fallen away with fewer numbers and less demand, partly due to the farmed VENISON coming onto the market.

330: Says they also experimented with NET TRAPS to catch the DEER. However, because they weren’t monitoring the TRAPS every day, this system wasn’t effective as often the animals had died by the time they got to them.

339: Mentions that he next tried temporary DEER PENS which proved quite successful. Explains how these were designed using wire NETTING and metal posts around which ran a full coil of 2m high cyclone-NETTING which was pinned back and tied up. He also installed a drop gate or two – one at each end of the PEN – which was activated by a trip wire when the DEER was lured into the PEN by bait.

355: The PENS, he continues, were mainly set up at nine sites around LAKE TE ANAU. Getting the DEER out was often problematic because he would have to walk them back to his boat. “I’d blindfold them and walk them back…and I carried them out by boat.”

372: Mentions one incident when he had forgotten to bring a blindfold so covered the animal’s head with his jersey and as he was walking it out, he slipped and lost his grasp so that neither the DEER nor the jersey were ever to be seen again.

388: Briefly mentions that NELSON and BILL were doing LIVE CAPTURE out of the WAPITI area and were able to fetch high prices ($3000) for the hybrid DEER/WAPITI they RECOVERED. He says they were more sought after because of being much bigger animals.

399: Once the DEER FARMS, particularly in the NORTH ISLAND, became established, he says, the demand for LIVE CAPTURE animals fell away because of the FARM breeding programmes that ensued.

405: “People were still doing it but it wasn’t really viable. You were better off just SHOOTING for MEAT…the MEAT prices went up to $6/kg.” (c.1996/1997)

416: Mentions that a lot of the DEER he caught and sold went to JAMES INNES on HOLDEN STATION in the MACKENZIE COUNTRY.

Tape 2 Side B stops

Tape 3 Side A starts

008: Referring to the high fatal accident rate among HELICOPTER CREWS particularly in the intensively active 1970s and 80s, he puts the blame on inexperienced operators who were unfamiliar with the FIORDLAND terrain and weather conditions.

020: Lists a series of contributing factors such as wind sheer, engine failure, bogus parts on the HELICOPTER, dirty fuel and poor maintenance.

031: Of that list, he explains that by saying “bogus parts”, some of the operators were buying cheaper reconditioned parts instead of brand new ones. “They shouldn’t really have been operating because their aircraft was in poor condition.”

044: Replies that he knew quite a few of those operators, many of whom were killed in crashes. He names JIM KANE as one local operator who did his own maintenance work even though he wasn’t a qualified aircraft engineer.

050: Considers that this had been a contributory factor in the cause of KANE’S fatal crash in the LONG SOUND area of the CAMERON MOUNTAIN range (DECEMBER 1989).

065: Although KANE was the only occupant at the time of the crash, his SHOOTER, BARRY GUISE, he says, tried to look after KANE who died from his injuries before a search and rescue team arrived. Newspaper reports at the time said the locator beacon had burned in the crash wreckage, so it wasn’t until the following morning that a search was launched after KANE and his CREW had failed to return from DEER RECOVERY work overnight. TE ANAU-based PILOT, BILL BLACK and a search and rescue team located the crash site after seeing smoke in the CAMERON range. KANE’S body was airlifted out of the area which was described as being a steep gully in rugged country.

074: States that the problem of incorrect mechanical parts being used on HELICOPTERS was more common in the NORTH ISLAND along with taking greater risks by CREWS working in difficult terrain they weren’t familiar with.

087: Affirms that his BROTHER, NELSON, died in 1990 during VENISON RECOVERY work in FIORDLAND and says there has been no clear answer as to how the accident happened. But he says the HELICOPTER encountered a “blade strike” while NELSON was getting out of the machine to pick up DEER he’d SHOT. The rotor blades, he explains, hit the hill making it crash possibly as a result of “wind sheer”.

105: Describes the different ways this could affect a HELICOPTER depending on whether it was flying over open tops or the forest cover.

113: Replies that NELSON’S accident occurred in the same area as JIM KANE’S less than a year before – the LONG SOUND. RAY NICHOLSON, he says, was flying the HELICOPTER with NELSON as SHOOTER. Although neither survived the crash NICHOLSON had been alive immediately after it happened but died later from his injuries.

121: NELSON, he says, was thrown away from the machine as he was getting out and sustained serious head injuries when he hit the ground.

141: A common problem was the balance of the rotor blades going out of kilter, he recalls, citing one instance with PILOT, DEREK COOK, when the HELICOPTER appeared to be vibrating too fiercely and after making an emergency landing they saw that blade-tape had separated from the tail rotor. They took the tape off the other tail rotor on the machine, to balance it up, started up and carried on HUNTING.

160: On days when weather or other problems prevented a day’s work, he says he set about making new NETS, re-loading AMMUNITION and maintaining other equipment. Or during the LIVE CAPTURE stage, he says, he would feed out any DEER still held in the dark box.

181: At its peak, he reiterates, there were sixteen HELICOPTERS operating in FIORDLAND but the number dropped back to about nine and then lowered again to about five until the INDUSTRY was effectively discontinued by the 1990s. Its reputation had been severely dented by reports of a contaminated shipment of WILD VENISON being shipped to one overseas importer.

216: Some WILD VENISON RECOVERY, he says, has started up again (since 2004) with HELICOPTERS being used. The difference now, he thinks, is that only the bigger STAGS will be targeted because it’s not worth the time and costs involved to SHOOT yearlings or smaller DEER.

227: Considers that there are still enough DEER in the PARK for it to be a profitable enterprise for the few operators involved. He says that for a while the DEER stayed in the mid-range area between valley floor and mountain tops but with the pressure off, they’ve moved back up above the bushline. “It’s much easier shooting them out in the open.”

240: Having been a DEERHUNTER for decades, he says the important ingredient was understanding the ways in which DEER behaved. Like all other creatures, he says DEER alter their habits with the seasons and weather conditions: “If you had that prior experience of HUNTING on foot, (it) made it so much easier out of a HELICOPTER ’cos you knew their habits.”

251: Interview ends: Tape 3 Side A stops.