Person recorded: Winifred Elise (Win) Stroud

Date: 27 June 2005

Interviewer: Morag Forrester

Tape Counter: Sony TCM 939

Tape 1 Side A

005: States her name is WINIFRED ELSIE STROUD (née BLATCH) and that she was born in INVERCARGILL in 1924.

018: Replies that her FATHER was HENRY FREDERICK BLATCH and that his PARENTS had been runholders of SUNNYSIDE STATION in WESTERN SOUTHLAND (in the late 1800s).

035: Says her GREAT GRANDFATHER (also named HENRY FREDERICK BLATCH) came to NEW ZEALAND on the JOHN WICKLIFFE (sailing rig) from ENGLAND, arriving at OTAGO HARBOUR on 23/MARCH/1848.

059: Explains her FATHER was one of twelve CHILDREN, two of whom died in WWI.

069: His occupation, she goes on, was FARMING and relates a tale about how as a boy, he had had to row a mob of SHEEP across the WAIAU RIVER on a punt, two at a time.

092: Says she was only thirteen years old when her FATHER died (in 1938).

095: Affirms that she and one BROTHER (LEW) were the children of a second marriage adding that as far as she knew, her FATHER’S first WIFE (ALICE ELLISON (nee BISHOP) had been unable to fully recover from the birth of her fourth and last CHILD, ALFRED.

119: Discussing her FATHER’S first WIFE’S name, the interviewer is incorrect in naming her as ELLEN MANSON. In fact, her paternal GRANDMOTHER was ELLEN (EMMA) MONSON.

123: Says she had four step-siblings, named JAMES, ALFRED, MOLLY and CATHY as well as her full BROTHER – LEWIS.

131: States her MOTHER was ELSIE WINIFRED COUTTS (who married HENRY BLATCH on 25 JANUARY 1921). Considers her MOTHER may have been in her mid-to-late twenties when they MARRIED.

150: Explains how her PARENTS met: her MOTHER was working as GOVERNESS for the four CHILDREN. Adds that the eldest CHILD drew up a petition signed by them all in which they requested their FATHER marry “Miss COUTTS because they all liked her.”

180: After saying her MOTHER was from INVERCARGILL, she adds that her maternal GRANDMOTHER was the only grandparent she ever met, the others having died before she was old enough to remember them.

202: Comments that her GRANDMOTHER and her FATHER got on well, adding that they were about the same age.

210: Mentions her GRANDMOTHER was born a WHITTINGHAM whose family owned a local brewery of the same name situated on the north side of the WAIHOPAI bridge. “It was quite a landmark in those days.”

215: Recalls that in those days liquor was not sold in INVERCARGILL city and remembers seeing men cycling out to ‘WHITTIES’ to fill up their beer flagons.

222: Of her first memories at LYNWOOD STATION, she says it was the time the HOMESTEAD was destroyed by fire, when she was about three years old (1928). Adds that it was a devastating event because the house and all its contents were “burnt to the ground”.

229: The cause of the fire, she says, was arson. Continues that the culprit was a FARM worker and that the incident happened when no-one was at home as both she and her PARENTS were away, JAMES was mustering stock in the UPUKERORA area and the other CHILDREN were at (boarding) school.

240: Talks in further detail about this incident and how they established the cause of the fire. Adds that the arsonist had been looking for money in the house, the evidence based on the fact that the children’s money boxes had been raided (as they contained the only cash in the house at that time).

270: Replies that the arsonist was never traced after he fled the scene.

278: Immediately afterwards, she says, the family lived in a two-bedroomed worker’s cottage on the other side of the road from the site of the destroyed HOMESTEAD.

283: Describes the interior of the cottage saying the two bedrooms were small and the main room was a communal kitchen/dining/living area with a coal range. Adds there was also a scullery at the back which was unlined. She later added that two large tents with wooden floors were also used for sleeping in. Person recorded: Win Stroud

290: Water, she says, was boiled on the coal range. Baths, she adds, were once a week in an old tin bath for which water was heated in a large copper boiling pot over an outside fire.

308: States they lived in that cottage for about a year while a new HOMESTEAD was being built. Recalls the day they moved into the new house, as she was the first to have a bath in a “proper bath”.

324: Affirms the new home was built by JBC DORE of MOSSBURN who she remembers only as being an elderly man. She later added that he also employed his two sons, Harry and Cecil as builders.

346: Replies that the cost of building the new house was 2,000 pounds.

Tape stopped and re-started

350: Showing a photograph of a holiday house (crib) in RIVERTON, she says it had been a wedding present from her FATHER to her MOTHER. States that in order to pay for the new HOMESTEAD, a mortgage was secured on the collateral of the crib.

360: Says that the fire happened in the middle of the “SLUMP” (the DEPRESSION); a difficult time financially.

363: Describing the interior of the new house, says there were six bedrooms, a small sitting room/office, a front lounge and a dining room which contained a large oak table.

401: Affirms that her FATHER was leaseholder at LYNWOOD STATION (from 1906), possibly freeholding about 800 acres around the HOMESTEAD area. The total size of the property, she says, was about 66,000 acres. [Records show that in 1864 what was known as the TE ANAU LAKE RUN was reduced from 47,000 to 27,000 acres (totalling 74,000 acres) the latter forming HILLSIDE STATION. After the death of CAPT. DONALD HANKINSON in 1877 the LYNWOOD HOMESTEAD became the headquarters of both runs. Later owners included T.C. ELLIS, H.F.BLATCH and J.H.ANDERSON.]

410: Replies that her FATHER stocked about 12,000 SHEEP and about 500 CATTLE (in the 1920s/30s).

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002: The stock, she says, would range across the property beyond the LYNWOOD BUSH to the northern boundary with TE ANAU DOWNS (STATION) and east to MARAROA and HILLSIDE STATIONS. There was no fencing in those days, she adds. Later she qualified this by noting that all the flat land was fenced, most of which lay south of the WHITESTONE BRIDGE.

035: Replies that there was one big annual MUSTER which would last about six weeks. Adds that one of the workers would ride back to the homestead once a week to stock up with butter and flour. Meat they had as required as well as fish caught from a nearby creek.

050: Asked whether women accompanied the five or six men, she replies: “Oh heavens no! They would have been like square pegs in a round hole.” 065: Of the workers hired by her FATHER, she says there was a HEAD SHEPHERD, a COWMAN/GARDENER and recalls that due to the accommodation provided most of the other workers were single men. Other workers, she later noted, included a fulltime rabbiter (ERIC GLEN) and a full-time PLOUGHMAN (GEORGE CARROLL). Her eldest BROTHER, JIM, was responsible for vehicle and implements maintenance while ALF worked alongside the shepherds and did much of the STOCK-related work.

075: In addition to the married couple’s cottage (in which they lived after the HOMESTEAD fire) there was another cottage across the road from it, a further three men’s huts and the COOKHOUSE were close by and across the stream was the SHEARER’S quarters.

089: Once the MUSTERING was over, it was SHEARING time. Recalls there would be between 18 and 20 men to feed at that time of year. This was done, she says, by the SHEARER’S COOK as they didn’t have a full time COOK.

106: As to the running of the household, says her MOTHER didn’t do housework but looked after the flower garden at the HOMESTEAD. She later added that her MOTHER was kept busy with huge amounts of laundry to do as well as knitting and mending garments.

125: Repeats that her SISTERS performed most of the household duties. MOLLY, for example, she says would spend a whole day baking. “You didn’t go and buy it, you made it.”

133: Affirms that their supplies were bought twice a year and that they produced all the basics such as meat, butter and vegetables.

178: Of her FATHER, says mostly she remembers he was beset by health problems she believes were the result of having to work so hard as a youth.

195: In hindsight, she recalls that she never had to seek permission from her PARENTS to go outdoors even when she was intending to go some distance from the HOMESTEAD.

206: Goes on to say that even their five hours of daily schooling was allowed to fit in with their extra-curricular activities around the property. “So we could start at half past seven, soon as we’d had our breakfast if we wanted.”

215: Early education was carried out on the property in the one-room SCHOOLHOUSE at the back of the HOMESTEAD. Describes the interior.

237: Her teacher, she says, was MARY SULLIVAN from DUNEDIN.

244: Tape stopped and restarted due to telephone interruption.

255: Recalls she began school at an earlier age than most children when she had not even reached four years old. “I had nobody else to play with so I just went to school too (laughs).”

259: Remembers other CHILDREN attended the school, including GEORGE RIORDAN from HILLSIDE STATION and relates a story about a class they had together one springtime.

288: Other CHILDREN at the school included the BEER family whose FATHER, WATTIE BEER, worked on the STATION. Recalls the names as KEITH, PEARL and EDNA.

301: Replies that she was taught at the home school. However, she adds that MISS SULLIVAN left before she had reached STANDARD FIVE (when she was about eleven years old).

324: Referring back to the general work on the STATION, she says there were two STABLES, one near the HOMESTEAD for the HACKS and the other for the DRAUGHT HORSES was situated near the aforementioned cottage.

330: Recalls that one worker (GEORGE CARROLL) was employed to look after the HORSES and that he was PLOUGHMAN at LYNWOOD for several years.

347: Affirms that regularly a day or two was spent cutting firewood which was stored in a large WOODSHED on the property. Coal, she says, was brought in from OHAI.

355: Referring to FESCUE, (an imported grass seed which was very hardy and therefore useful for airstrips or sports grounds and was in much demand in EUROPE and the US during WWII) says she can’t recall whether it was grown at LYNWOOD, but adds that GUY CHEWINGS was a good friend of her FATHER’S and that they visited his home in MOSSBURN. The CHEWINGS name became synonymous with FESCUE after GEORGE (GUY’S FATHER) first planted the seed in MOSSBURN where threshing began in 1888. It continued to be grown around MOSSBURN and in the TE ANAU BASIN and was a valuable export commodity until the 1950s when the main market, the UNITED STATES, began producing its own variety.

361: Of other people living in the BASIN in the 1930s, says she remembers the CHARTRES family at TE ANAU DOWNS and the MACDONALDS at THE PLAINS recalling a particular occasion when JOHN and HAMISH MACDONALD visited LYNWOOD.

378: Participant’s microphone dislodges and is reattached.

393: Briefly mentions that one of the FRASER children who lived at the GORGE HILL STATION died in a TUSSOCK fire after he was trapped during a ‘burn-off’.

402: Of the distances between the properties she comments that “you didn’t pop in for morning tea or anything like that”.

407: TE ANAU she replies “wasn’t a town then”. Of the few people then living in the township, she recalls a MR EVANS as RANGER (for the SOUTHLAND ACCLIMATISATION SOCIETY) and ERNIE GOVAN (proprietor of the TE ANAU HOTEL).

413: “There weren’t any shops, there wasn’t a garage. There was a petrol station, that’s all. And the fish hatchery (for which MR EVANS was responsible).”

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002: Continues off-tape discussion about childhood games at LYNWOOD, such as playing with dolls indoors and shimmying up trees or horse-riding outdoors. Person recorded: Win Stroud

013: Lists some of the riding ponies they had at LYNWOOD, including TOMMY, PINCHER, BIDDY and LUCY which was on loan from the SPEIGHTS at REDCLIFF STATION.

041: Relates a tale about LEW being nudged into a creek by LUCY while he was looking for eels.

062: As to helping out during the busy spells at LYNWOOD, says they did some duties such as taking the morning tea to the SHEARING SHED but adds that they weren’t encouraged to hang around there when they were younger because of the coarse language they may have overheard.

102: Replies that her GRANDMOTHER looked after her during the two years she finished her primary education at WAIHOPAI SCHOOL, INVERCARGILL.

108: Going home for the weekend, she adds, wasn’t practical in those days when the one-way journey took eight hours.

116: Recalls her FATHER used to travel between LYNWOOD and INVERCARGILL once a month in connection with his duties as the TE ANAU representative on the WALLACE COUNTY COUNCIL.

132: Remembers the first car in which she travelled with her PARENTS had canvas sides.

160: Mentions there were not many bridges for vehicles to cross rivers and creeks, even over the fairly wide MARAROA RIVER.

170: As a result, she recalls, her MOTHER had to get out, remove her shoes and stockings and wade into the water to test whether the level was shallow enough for the car to reach the other side. Later she pointed out that her FATHER, who was more than twenty years older than her MOTHER, suffered from chronic bronchitis and general ill-health implying that she was the more able of the two to undertake this road test.

178: Once or twice, she says, they did get stuck – usually in snow around the GORGE HILL area – and remembers her MOTHER having to walk down to the FRASERS there to telephone her BROTHER who would drive the tractor over to free their snow-bogged vehicle.

194: In those days, she says, the road surface was gravel and there would not be much traffic meeting them in either direction.

204: Remembers that while she was staying at her GRANDMOTHER’S house in INVERCARGILL, there were quite a number of horses and carts passing to and fro. The house, she commented later, still stands on NORTH ROAD: on the way into the city, it is the first two-storey house on the right after the WAIHOPAI BRIDGE.

217: Returning to life at LYNWOOD, replies that the STATION employed a RABBITER full-time, adding that it was a job taken up at one stage by ERNIE GOVAN (of the TE ANAU HOTEL).

228: Recalls the extent of the RABBIT problem on the property in the late 1930s and relates a tale about a time when in order to earn some pocket money she’d agreed to do some RABBITING in one of the paddocks. However, she admits, she didn’t have the courage to finish the job.

265: Referring again to the SLUMP, says times were hard as evidenced that even though her FATHER had had to build a new HOMESTEAD, it was designed without any “frills”.

285: Relates a story about a family from DUNEDIN that visited them during that period, remarking on the pranks that she and her BROTHER, LEW, played on the child who was dressed in smart “townie” clothes.

302: Interview closes, tape stopped

A second interview was conducted on 07 JULY 2005 again at the participant’s home in INVERCARGILL.

316: Continuing the theme of special events, she recalls that at CHRISTMAS the family would have picnics in areas such as the HOLLYFORD VALLEY when they would all pile into the back of the FARM TRUCK to get there.

330: Replies that during holidays from BOARDING SCHOOL in DUNEDIN, she helped out on the FARM doing jobs such as checking the LAMBS or feeding the HENS and collecting their eggs. 347: As to the division between proprietor and workers, she says that any girls that worked in the house shared meals with the family in the dining room but the men on the FARM took their meals in the kitchen.

360: States she attended ARCHERFIELD SCHOOL for GIRLS in DUNEDIN. Recalls that during her first year at ARCHERFIELD, her FATHER died (1938) and her eldest BROTHER, JIM, got married (to ELVRA) so that the situation at home changed quite dramatically.

377: Mentions that JIM and the next BROTHER, ALFRED, took over running LYNWOOD after their FATHER’S death. However, within months, she says, war was declared in EUROPE (WWII in SEPTEMBER 1939) and ALFRED was immediately called up.

385: Says he joined the NZRAF and went overseas with the first consignment of air force servicemen from NEW ZEALAND. Adds that he never returned.

388: Replies that JIM had also wanted to join the services overseas but was told by the authorities that in order to do so he would have to find someone to manage LYNWOOD which was impossible at that time.

398: Recalls that JIM and his wife moved into the HOMESTEAD after they married and her MOTHER moved to the crib at RIVERTON, although she would often help out at LYNWOOD especially during the war years.

409: During the long summer holidays from BOARDING SCHOOL, she says, she would divide the time between staying at LYNWOOD and at RIVERTON.

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002: Recalling the mood of the country after war was declared in 1939, says all the young men wanted to join up, not knowing then what they were undertaking. Adds that a maternal uncle had enlisted in WWI at the age of 17, and although he survived four years in the trenches he came back “a ruined man, health-wise”.

019: Replies that her BROTHER, ALFRED, was reported missing in 1940 following an allied air raid at night over OLDENBURG, GERMANY. “It was one of the planes that never returned.”

048: Says it was never confirmed that he was killed until years after war was over in 1945. Adds that his remains, along with those of the other crew of the aircraft, were buried in GERMANY.

070: Affirms that JIM carried on running LYNWOOD single-handedly but is unaware of him implementing any major changes.

078: States that ALFRED had been the one more interested in the animal husbandry side of FARMING while JIM’S preference was looking after the machinery so that they’d worked well as a team.

094: Mentions that the youngest boy, LEW, also worked on the property until he enlisted for military service and was sent overseas in 1942. Says he served with the NZ army and was involved in the BATTLE OF MONTE CASSINO “from which he had a very, very narrow escape”.

127: Replies that LEW married shortly before he went overseas and that his wife’s family were FARMERS in the OXFORD area of CANTERBURY, so they settled in that district after the war was over.

143: Recalls that he won second prize on the precursor to the LOTTERY which she says was called an ART UNION ticket. The money, she says, was enough to pay off his loan on the FARM at OXFORD, called VIEWHILL.

151: Of her SISTERS, says they both married after their FATHER died. One of them (CATHY), she says, married ERIC KEAST from OHAI who was involved in the coal mining industry there.

165: MOLLY, she adds, married JACK LAWRENCE who was a FARMER in an area not far from WINTON.

184: Affirms that JIM sold LYNWOOD in 1951 to the ANDERSONS but is unable to explain his decision. Thinks it may have been prompted by the fact that the lease was due to expire within a few years.

190: Following the sale, she says, JIM and his family moved to CENTRE BUSH where he took over the AUTO GARAGE and SERVICE STATION, “which was really his sort of thing, actually, he did very well”.

202: Jumps back to a childhood memory of swimming in the WHITESTONE RIVER with a friend (VAL ROBBIE) and a cousin. This story relates back to an earlier comment about how they never thought to seek permission to go anywhere.

250: Leads to comments about how lighting and heating were provided in the days before the TE ANAU BASIN was connected to the national electricity grid. Says there were ALADDIN lamps (kerosene) in the living areas.

260: Thinks they may also have had a (diesel-powered) generator which would only have provided lighting.

263: Cooking, she says, was on the coal range at first and then they had an AGA (larger than a coal range) which required a special type of coal. Recalls that the top of one part of the AGA was “just the right temperature to comfortably sit on”.

280: Replies that other rooms were heated with open fires in each of them, including fireplaces in three of the six bedrooms.

289: Referring to the telephone system, says they had a “party line” in the BASIN with about ten households connected to it. Adds that each property had its own dialling signal.

300: Talks about MRS MACAULEY at THE KEY who operated the telephone exchange.

325: Returning to her education, says she was at ARCHERFIELD SCHOOL for five years, until she was eighteen and went on to the CHRISTCHURCH SCHOOL of ART which she attended for one year.

334: However, she suffered financial difficulties which brought a halt to her course. In the first year, she received a bursary but the next year she was dependent on borrowing funds.

344: Recalls that because WWII was still going on at that time, there was a compulsory labour scheme for women able to work and that they were not allowed to do “anything that was classed as non-essential”.

361: Says that she had been doing some work painting dolls faces which the authorities deemed as non-essential.

367: So, under the MANPOWER SCHEME, she says she was sent to work at the CASHMERE SANITARIUM (for patients suffering from tuberculosis which prior to the discovery of preventive vaccination in the 1940s was often a fatal disease) as a kitchen maid.

378: Due to the working conditions there, she says, after a few weeks she telephoned a friend who instantly collected her from the place.

385: The authorities, however, caught up with her and offered her three work alternatives, the best of which was as a nurse in the above-mentioned SANITARIUM. This she did for about three months until the restrictive MANPOWER SCHEME was lifted.

407: Comments that “it was pretty hard to get yourself organised in those days: they came down pretty heavily with all their rules and restrictions”.

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001: Continues on the same topic.

035: Declares it was not long after leaving the SANITARIUM that she was employed as a GOVERNESS at MT LINTON STATION in WESTERN SOUTHLAND.

050: Says the MCGREGORS (NOEL and LESLEY) at MT LINTON contacted her about the job of teaching their two children, ALISTER aged about five, and VIRGINIA who was about three years old.

061: Replies that she was happy to “give it a go” despite not having any formal training as a teacher.

085: Mentions that she lived in the HOMESTEAD at MT LINTON with the family and that she and the children shared the same bathroom.

095: Recalls that similar to LYNWOOD, there was a separate SCHOOLHOUSE on the property.

102: As far as the teaching was concerned, says the children were enrolled with the CORRESPONDENCE SCHOOL (which provided a curriculum to pupils nationwide), so she followed that system.

123: Mentions there was a married couple named MILLALEY originally from IRELAND employed at MT LINTON to run the household.

134: As for social occasions in the house, says she attended only one or two but generally avoided such events. Mentions QUEEN ELIZABETH II had visited the STATION not long after she had left. “I tell you I’d run a mile rather than be around when that happened, I really would.”

153: Recalls NOEL MCGREGOR as being very tall and says that his FATHER had been a friend of her FATHER.

176: Says she worked as the MT LINTON GOVERNESS for about a year but cannot remember how much she was paid, although thinks it was the standard rate at that time.

180: Recalls having her own horse at the STATION and that during her spare time rode to OHAI to visit her SISTER. Goes on to say that when she left MT LINTON she had a spinal operation at the DEE ST. HOSPITAL in INVERCARGILL. Person recorded: Win Stroud

205: It was while she was recovering, she remembers, that peace was declared in EUROPE in JULY 1945 and that she was unable to take part in the festivities outside.

221: Relates the day her BROTHER, LEW, came home to INVERCARGILL after the war, stepping off the tram outside her GRANDMOTHER’S house.

250: “Oh that was wonderful that night, though…when we finally got together.”

257: In her twenties, she says, she took up employment as a DRESSMAKER and was MANAGER of six other workers for STALLARDS of INVERCARILL.

283: Says she earned about ₤8/week which “was quite good in those days”. Adds that she continued living at home until she married at about twenty-three years old. However, the marriage was short-lived and she remarried in her later twenties to GEOFFREY STROUD.

296: They had two children – daughter, ANGELA JANE and son, DAVID.

308: Referring back to LYNWOOD and TE ANAU, says she noticed a lot of change had occurred on the STATION just after it had been taken up by the government under the LANDS & SURVEY FARM DEVELOPMENT PROJECT in the mid-1950s.

327: Recalls that the wife of the first L&S FARM MANAGER that took over the house had objected to all the decorative trees and shrubs on the property and so had them removed. “I was glad my MOTHER never saw that…what they did to her lovely garden.”

338: Replies that her MOTHER never went back to LYNWOOD or TE ANAU after her BROTHER sold the property in 1951.

348: Comments that the L&S SCHEME has resulted in the area being much more developed and that it has allowed for better use of the land. Adds that such large-scale development was impossible for an individual to have taken on.

352: “It was all just scrub and wilderness out the…what we called the run…you know… out the UPUKERORA RIVER and everything. ’T’was really wild out there.”

359: Considers it a good thing that part of the original property formed is now the LYNWOOD CEMETERY. “It used to be one of our favourite places to walk up there and take picnics, you know, when we were kids.”

367: Mentions there used to be a cairn of stones that marked the area in which a baby had been buried during the time that LYNWOOD was owned by CAPTAIN HANKINSON in the late 1800s.

376: Recalls that her FATHER used to maintain the LYNWOOD BUSH by clearing overhanging trees and shrubs along the track. Says the present-day walkway does not follow the line of the one they knew.

397: Remembers that around the site of the original HOMESTEAD there had been old fruit trees as well as gooseberry bushes and wild strawberries.

407: The garden around the present HOMESTEAD, she says, also had some fruit trees including apples, pears and plums. There were also soft berry bushes and after they were harvested, these goods were stored in the cellar under the house.

415: Recalls preserves were made in the big copper.

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002: Continues on the same theme saying the preserves were made with help from everyone in the household, even the younger children.

022: Recalls there were “masses” of large glass, rubber-sealed preserving jars.

084: While reflecting on her MOTHER working in the home and the flower garden, she remembers using the SINGER sewing machine herself for her doll’s clothes.

114: Says the dolls were made of porcelain and then adds that the family’s first set of toys were destroyed by the fire of 1928.

143: About the fire, replies that there were not many people living near them to offer assistance immediately, or even in the days and weeks afterwards, the closest being the RIORDANS at HILLSIDE (about 5kms distant).

169: Replies she could never have imagined as a child growing up at LYNWOOD that TE ANAU would become the tourist resort it is in 2005.

190: Says that before the MILFORD ROAD was built the only overland route to MILFORD SOUND was the MILFORD TRACK which, she considers, wasn’t widely used.

220: Says she regrets not having walked the MILFORD TRACK despite being a keen tramper. Comments that she had had to cancel plans to walk it when she was about nineteen and had never got round to re-organising the trip.

237: However, she recalls taking a few boat trips on LAKE MANAPOURI with LES MURRELL, a local guide.

242: Adds that her family knew the MURRELLS quite well, mentioning EVA MURRELL, who ran the GRANDVIEW GUESTHOUSE after her parents retired from the business.

Interview ends

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